Patti_RN

What's worse? Striving for an A and getting a C? or, striving for a B and getting a D?

I'm not sure of the intent of this petition. Scope of practice restrictions are state level decisions, not federal.

Yes, this does help! I won't take the exam for another year, but I plan on studying for it the way I studied for the NCLEX: while I was still in my early semesters of nursing school. I bought study materials and did practice exams way before I could answer 1/3 of the questions correctly. Doing the practice exams actually helped me with the exams in nursing school. I just started looking for AANP study materials, and wasn't sure what to buy. Your suggestions are great; I'll be ordering them this week. Thanks!

ImKosher beat me to it! I don't wear them myself but one of the guys on our floor got a pair of these pants with lots and lots of pockets. Other people teasingly started calling him Rambo... until others starting wearing the same things. Some of the pockets close with velcro, others are open, there are different size pockets and they don't really look bulky (unless you stuff with way more than you probably should!).

Funny thing about my first paycheck was that HR messed up my paperwork so no paycheck was issued the first pay period. My supervisor told me that often employees 'miss' their first paycheck, so I should just wait for the next 2 week pay. Same thing two weeks later--still no check. I waited again (didn't want to be the squeaky wheel when I was a new employee). The next pay period I DID say something, and they corrected the mistakes on my paperwork, but it was too late to get the next check! They did issue a check the next pay period and it included all the back pay I was entitled to, so it was quite a little windfall. My husband and I looked at each other and thought off all the sacrifices we made while I was in school, what a wonderful vacation we could have... or buy furniture... or a big down payment on new car... Instead, we put it in the stock market and forgot about it. My first paycheck has swollen in value to the point that I COULD buy a flashy new car, or make a substantial down payment on a house.

I'll return to the OP's questions, without judgment. Most employers will not share the exact reasons for termination when a new, prospective employer requests a reference. Many people believe there is a law that forbids this, but it's more the threat that the employee will sue for defamation that prevents employers from sharing the details or reasons an employee left or was terminated. So, officially, your employer will state, "Mr. Smith was employed here in the capacity of an RN from August, 2012 to January 2013." That will be the extent of what they state in writing or by email--but, if the manager where you are applying calls her friend, the manager where you were dismissed, the 'off the record' details may be given. So, you're taking a risk if you claim to have left voluntarily and they find out otherwise. They will likely assume you've been terminated (even if they don't know the details) because you are applying for jobs while not currently employed (few people quit a job before securing a new one). It's very likely the next move is termination after suspending you. Employers are careful to dot their i's and cross their t's before firing an employee. They don't want to be in a position where they are forced to rehire, pay unemployment, or lose a lawsuit. This is the reason people are first suspended then days or weeks later they are terminated. You might choose to resign as you could legitimately state on future applications that you quit, rather than have to say you were fired. (But, again, the truth has a way of coming out--honesty is virtually always the best policy.) I have no idea how long you've had this job--you state it's your first job--but if you were there less than 6 months or even a year, you may simply choose to ignore this on your resume. One of my duties is hiring employees; I might be reluctant to hire someone who was terminated for what you did, but I'd also be hesitant to hire an applicant who graduated a year ago and has no nursing experience. Either way, your options aren't great. Unfortunately for those with less-than-perfect records, there is a lot of competition for very few nursing jobs. Employers can afford to be selective; with all things being equal between two applicants except one had a lapse in judgment and the other didn't, guess who will get the job? My best advice is to resign, put your resume together (considering whether you think admitting to this is better or worse than having no work experience) and cross your fingers. I cannot predict how other employers will react; hiring managers are people, and people are individuals with very different standards and values. What one person believes is a youthful mistake, another will think is a terrible lapse of judgment (and not be willing to risk hiring someone who might make other bad decisions). Your career may not recover from this (especially with the surplus of able and experienced nurses seeking jobs). I'm not trying to be harsh, but I read many of the replies to your original post and suspect you might have what employers call 'attitude problems'. You do accept responsibility for your actions--which is very admirable and mature, but some of your other comments come off as hostile and argumentative. It could be that you're stressed over this situation, which is understandable. But, for your sake, try to tone it down a notch or two. You'll be more employable and more respected by your colleagues and managers if you don't take the offensive when you don't agree with what others have said. Good luck.

Admission to nursing school is very, very competitive. They turn down applicants who can be successful because they don't have space to accommodate everyone who would make it to graduation. This means that you're among the most capable and among the most likely to succeed. This doesn't mean it will be easy, it simply means you do have the abilities to survive. Realize there is a 'point of diminishing return' on studying: which means there's a point at which you're putting in many hours just to get a point or two higher grades. Be happy with an A- or B+ (or whatever your personal goal is) and don't deny yourself time with your kids or an occasional movie just to go from a 92 to a 94%. When you study, devote that time to actually studying. Don't get distracted by checking emails, playing one more computer game. or checking Facebook. Instead, decide how long you'll devote to studying then walk away after that amount of time has passed. Then you can spend 15 minutes on social media. Think about your journey in semesters or blocks of classes. Get through each day and focus on the end of the semester or class. It's easier to set your sights on finals in May than graduation in two years. Make sure you reward yourself along the way. Take your kids to the park, soak in a bubble bath, meet friends for lunch... whatever gives you a little break and clears your mind. It's easy to burn out on school (or nursing when you're working). Best of luck to you!

If your only reason for becoming a nurse (or pursuing any job, for that matter) is money, you're bound to become a very unhappy person. Money should never be the paramount reason for choosing a career--yes, it can be a factor, but not the most important reason. You say you want to be a "good nurse caring understanding gentle nurturing", but you never once mention committed, intelligent, selfless, or dependable. There seems to be a huge gap between dreams and reality as far as what nurses actually do. I've never known a nurse who was able to sit for hours with a dying patient, or spend even adequate time comforting a family member or patient. While most of us would love to show our 'gentle, understanding, caring, and nurturing' sides, our days are filled with charting, confirming orders, passing meds, cleaning up all sorts of bodily fluids, and maybe making one run to the bathroom in the course of an 8 hour day. Moreover, in spite of what you've probably heard about a nursing shortage, that's far from reality. Schools are churning out new grads faster than spots are created or vacated. Competition for jobs is intense. There is downward pressure on wages because of the surplus of warm bodies to fill the jobs. It's only going to get worse. And, the competition doesn't begin with employment, it begins for the coveted spots in schools. It's getting harder and harder to be accepted.

Most of us are parents, and we've juggled school and/ or work with family obligations. When people have difficulty doing so, it's usually because of not studying effectively. The best thing you can do is schedule separate time for studying, for being with your kids, and doing other things. Then stick to that plan. You're not doing your kids a favor, or your school work a favor by letting the other distract you. If you're sitting at your desk and turning every 5 minutes to talk to your kids, you're not really absorbing the information. If you're playing with the kids and you keep pulling out your flash cards, you're not giving the kids your undivided attention. Figure out how much time you need, then devote a block of time to studying each day; if you have to, go to a library so you're not pulled in another direction. Don't take your phone (or at least put it on silent and put it out of sight). Don't check emails. Don't log onto Facebook. Devote the time to studying. And, be organized about it. Break down the work into chapters, or diseases, or systems and focus on ONE thing at a time before you go on. Take notes, write flashcards, or whatever you find to be helpful. Be systematic and organized. When time is up, go back home and spend time with your kids... and don't be tempted to read over your notes. This way, you'll devote yourself to your kids 100% and you'll feel less guilty when you have to study. Think about it this way, when you finish school and you're actually working, you'll have to be away for 8+ hours each day. School can be a bit less of a time demand, but you still have to devote uninterrupted time to studying and classes. Deal with school like it's a job, not like it's an option.

A word of caution about for profit schools (or any poorly ranked schools)-- they are expensive, many are not well respected, and the graduates of those programs suffer as a result of their poor reputations. It's tough to find a job if you graduated from a top-tier nursing school; if you attend a poorly ranked school you may find it very, very difficult to get hired. Many students want to hurry through nursing school (or any program) and finish in the shortest time possible. Mostly, this isn't a great idea, but in your case it's understandable. Your current plan seems to make the most sense: finish a two year degree, then complete your BSN at an online respected college or university. If you do have to move in a couple years, you'll have your RN license and the BSN completion can be done pretty much anywhere.

BlueDevil's comments are fairly accurate--advanced practice practioners are fairly similar, but there tend to be differences. The most significant difference is the ability, aptitude, and skills of the individual. There are good and bad nurses good and bad doctors and good and bad mid-level practitioners; whether an individual is competent or not does not reflect on others of similar training. The next important criterion is the quality of education--there is a HUGE difference in academic rigor between the most demanding and the 'easiest' schools--and the demanding schools generally produce more competent practioners--first, because those admitted to competitive schools are the gifted students already at the top of the class, and second, because those programs are more challenging. This is not to say every single grad of a top-tier program is more skilled than every student at poorly ranked schools--but there is definitely a correlation. In my area, there are three fairly good NP programs and the grads of each are well respected. There is one local PA school with a poor ranking, low pass rate on boards, and the grads are generally thought of as being less competent and not as well prepared. This doesn't mean 'all NPs' are better/ smarter/ more skilled than 'all PAs'; but in our area it's generally true. The inverse could hold in an area where there is a strong PA program and weak NP program, so some opinions may be based on anecdotal information. This could be a great topic for research, but it's probably a subject too charged with ego, emotion, prejudice, and lack of meaningful information to be discussed and determined here.

There must be some other details that you're not aware of. Many times we don't know how we're perceived by others, or what our colleagues really think of us. It sounds like you have some enemies--not that this is your fault because workplace politics can be uglier than the social dynamics of a middle-school cafeteria. But, whether you did something to provoke the 'mean girls' or not, they seemed to have it out for you--and have the ear of the supervisors. There is probably not much you can do, or even want to do in this situation; getting your job back is probably the last thing on your wish list. But, you can to is turn this into a learning opportunity. If you have any good, trustworthy friends from your employment ask them to go to lunch or have coffee with you (one at a time), then ask them to be candid and tell you what they believe happened. Ask tough questions and be prepared to hear some things you might not like or agree with... Ask what other employees thought about you or said about you (and specifically say you don't want to hear names, just their opinions). Just listen, don't interrupt or argue. Try not to react if what they say is negative--you can say, "this is really hard to hear, but I'd like to learn more." Listen carefully and sit on the information. In the next days and weeks try to consider aspects of what they told you, and try to be open-minded enough to see if there is a shred of truth in their words. If they said you were considered to be 'aloof' or 'lazy' or 'condescending'... or whatever, try to imagine if you may have inadvertently come across that way. If you can see yourself as others may have seen you, this may be a way to make some changes and avoid the same thing happening at your next job. It can be a very, very painful process, but it can lead to less pain in the future. If you can sincerely consider their critiques but not agree, then you were probably the victim of the 'mean girls'. Best of luck. We've all been there at some point, to some extent. It's never easy being the ostracized member of a group. Sometimes it's your fault, often it's not, and sometimes its a combination of the two. I hope you never have to deal with this problem again.

States differ on what PAs can/ cannot do; ditto for NPs. I believe all (or most) states require PAs to work under a physician, some have the same requirements for NPs; some states don't allow NPs prescriptive authority, but most do; some states don't allow PAs to prescribe.... different states, different rules and scopes of practice. But, generally, NPs have more autonomy and a broader scope of practice than the PAs.

Personally, I like the autonomy most NPs have (states do vary), but all PAs work under a physician. That, in itself, doesn't make anyone more or less competent. Most NPs do come from a BSN background and most have at least a few years of work experience--that means that after NP school they have about 8 years (or more) of relevant training and experience. I know several PAs with undergrad degrees in fields like Art History, Political Science, etc., who apply to PA school and two years later are prescribing meds. Given the choice of two such practitioners, personally I'd rather be a patient of the NP. I've seen many threads on this site asking about 'easy' or 'fast' or 'cheap' NP programs, and there are certainly those wishing to attend similar PA programs. Beyond the NP vs. PA controversy, it also depends on the caliber school a person attends, and the individual's skills and abilities; a PA who attended a demanding, rigorous program could very well be a better practitioner than an NP who went the 'easy, fast, and cheap' route.

Not only are the hours of the work day a consideration, but the commuting time, parking expense, fuel or other transportation, and even prep time to go to work are all hours and expenses that should be factored in. We all have to get up, shower, dress, drive (or walk or take transportation) to work, park, get there at least a few minutes early as a 'buffer', and return home at the end of the day. Depending on traffic and distance it could take an hour or two 'door to door' each way. So, that additional time easily adds 10 hours a week to the time burden of work. If you work three 12's it's only 6 hours a week... Same should be considered for wear-and-tear on your car, you fuel expenses, and your parking expenses.

Not, yet, jaelpn! It took a while last time to get the deposit; I suspect Brian is pretty busy with this site and his 'real' job!

You get what you pay for!

MrsPolly, I respect your motivations and reasons for wanting to become a nurse and to have your sights on working in a physician's office. You're weighing your family obligations and career goals together. Seeking information is a good thing; and you seem able to hear the messages from experienced nurses telling you that jobs in doctor's offices are not that easy to come by. There are numerous other threads on this board started by starry-eyed wanna-be's who can't seem to understand that they probably won't become the Surgeon General upon graduation from nursing school ("But, I really WANT to be the surgeon general... surely they'll bend the rules for me!!!") It would be nice if we all found some passion early in life and worked exclusively toward that goal. The reality is most of us have been through several 'false starts' before landing in a field we're happy (or at least semi-satisfied) with. So, you're exploring all the possibilities--a good thing. There is nothing wrong with considering different fields to see how they would fit in with your life. If you really want to be a nurse, there are plenty of daylight, Monday through Friday jobs out there. You'll probably have to put in a couple years to gain experience before landing one. Is that something you could do if it worked into your long-term plan? Working night shift isn't all bad--especially if you know you'll be doing it for a year or two. Or, working weekends? That's IF you get hired, at all... One of the huge problems right now is there are few nursing jobs out there, especially for new grads. Nursing schools have been graduating tons of students in the last few years, older nurses aren't retiring at the rate that was expected, and few new positions have been created. So, each year many grads fail to find jobs. If you don't find a job in your first 6 months after graduation, your prospects become worse and worse as the fresh new grads are hired and the 'stale' grads get passed over again, and again. Don't give up on a dream because others have thrown cold water, but don't be so starry-eyed that you can't be realistic. You seem to be on the right path: explore, know your interests and limitations, and get advice. Then, make an informed decision. There are no guarantees in life, but proceeding this way will give you the best shot at success.

Thanks to Brian, Joe, and the rest who organized this contest and encouraged us to share our nursing stories. Hopefully, this contest will be even more popular in the future. The articles were great; we could either identify with the situations, or we learned by the experiences of others.

When I see resumes with three month 'jobs' (one in psych, one in med surg, one in peds, etc) during their nursing school years, it's obvious that these are clinical rotations and educational experiences, not part of their employment history. It's also lying and dishonest. I'd rather hire a new grad with no experience than someone who twists their resume in an attempt to deceive.

I received a resume that had ALL identifying information blacked out! Name, phone number, address, the names of schools attended, as well as the names of previous employers. The cover letter indicated that privacy concerns and fears of identity theft prevented her from sharing this information with a 'total stranger'. She signed her letter with her first name and included an email address that she apparantly created to hide her name and also communicate her professionalism, FoxyRedHeadPartier@____ .com

A Med Tech is not a nurse, most med techs have at least a BSN, sometimes an MS and others even more education, so the person was being dishonest from the start. Med Tech is short for Medical Technologist (a four year degree) or sometimes Med Techs are Medical Technicians (which is a two-year degree, but is being phased out in most parts of the country--they are mostly helpers for the technologists). Med Techs are the ones who run chem panels, type and cross blood, and do tissue typing--plus a lot more. They are mostly behind the scenes, working in the labs. The person was probably a Patient Care Tech (a term for 'Nurse's Aide' in many regions). It may be surprising to nurses, but Med Techs are generally insulted when anyone mistakes them for nurses!

Try a staffing agency that fills local jobs. Often they fill temporary jobs that employers don't have enough staff to cover for, or don't want to hire for. These jobs range from single day flu shot clinics to long term jobs (covering for a maternity leave, for instance). Some of the positions are traditional med-surg jobs, and other jobs are a bit of a stretch to call 'nursing'. The other option that is often available to recovering addicts/ alcoholics is working as a peer counselor; usually these people aren't professionals so if a hospital or rehab facility can hire a nurse as a peer counselor, it's a huge bonus for them--they get a professional who has a first hand understanding of addictions. I've never been a substance abuser, but many of my clients/patients are. It's a tough road to be an addict, a tough road to get clean, and sadly a tough road once you are clean. Rebuilding takes time, and sadly there can be a very long lag between the time you stop using and the time others regain their trust. Don't give up. Best of luck.

There are always the exceptions, and I often talk about the exceptions of nursing school students who don't do well in classes and on exams but are great in the clinical settings. The problem for many current nursing students and new grads is there simply are not enough positions for the number of graduates. In the past, schools may have bent the rules a bit to encourage or enable students to continue, even if their grades weren't officially passing. There is no longer a reason to do this, and in fact it would be a great disservice to those with marginal or failing grades to stay in their program. First, the NCLEX is an unforgiving test and there is a very high correlation between doing well academically and passing the NCLEX. The worst outcome might be to spend 2 or 4 years in nursing school, and the money, and the loss of income while in school, only to sit for the NCLEX and fail. At that point, a student would (rightly) complain, "They took my tuition, allowed me to waste those years, knowing I had little chance of getting my license." The next problem would be actually finding a job with a transcript full of B's and C's (in most programs a 70% is failing--so you're right on the edge, worse if your school's requirement was a 75%). There is a huge difference between early clinical experiences (where you're basically interviewing patients) and the later clinicals like critical care where you need to know everything taught in the classroom. The didactic portion of the program isn't 'paper pushing' it's the cornerstone of the nursing education. One of the problems with nursing is that people who want to be nurses often have little idea of what the job actually entails. I can't count the number of student nurses who long to, 'sit and hold a dying patient's hand'; I know of no employed nurses who have ever had that opportunity--no matter how much they would like to offer such support. While words like 'caring' and 'supportive' are often associated with nurses, it would be more accurate to associate nurses with traits like 'intelligent', 'competent', and 'decisive'. It's wonderful to have hopes and dreams, but they should be tempered with the realities of life. Be thankful that you didn't waste the additional 475 days and the cost of tuition on a program that probably wouldn't have led to success. Maybe it just wasn't 'your time' to attend nursing school. It's tough to do this program without burdens of working two jobs, recuperating from an auto accident, and living far from home. Maybe you'd be successful if you were able to devote the time and energy without distraction. Think about ways to get to your goal: maybe a school closer to your home, maybe going part-time... You might be able to do this, but only if you humble yourself and not refer to the important classroom work as 'pushing papers' and thinking that nursing school is a 'piece of cake'. Don't give up on your dreams, but don't minimize what nurses do, how hard school is, or how hard it is to get to that dream. Best of luck to you!

I loved nursing school, too! It was, until now, also the most difficult educational experience of my life (including law school... which I delighted in telling fellow law students when they complained, "If you think law school is tough, you should have gone to nursing school!!!") Nursing school might also be the most useful education you ever get. You don't have to be an A student, in my experience sometimes the best nurses were the B (and even C) students who rocked it in clinicals. That's not to say the A students didn't become good nurses, it's just a comment that you don't have to be an A student to be a great nurse). There is a correlation between grades and understanding/ mastery of a subject, but it's not a perfect relationship. Usually, if you understand something really well, the your grade will prove it. But, even if you don't strive for A's, strive to learn as much as you can. It's your one opportunity to really learn the information. If you master it now it will be to your advantage later. Yep, I loved nursing school so much I've gone back... to become an NP. And, I love this even more!!!