James Huffman

I'm sure you're not the only one who feels this way. I think there's a divide. You're on one side; I'm on the other. The point I'm trying to make is that if we -- as a profession -- are thankful for getting a 19 cent logo pen or a stale donut, well, we will continue to get them. And that will be all we'll get. Sometimes nothing is indeed better than something. We are demeaned professionally by the annual nurses day fest. As I've pointed out before, this is because women -- who obviously dominate nursing -- often want to be "recognized," whereas men would usually just as soon have better pay. It really, really is about money. Do we want to get paid what we should or do we want trinkets? We won't get both.

Others suggested working in another state. That's a plan, but another possibility is working for the VA system. The VA -- being governed by federal regs -- allows nurses to be licensed in any state, and this is an option. A word of encouragement: I was the first Excelsior grad licensed in NC. I had to fight. You've been crying for 2 days? Fine. Now stop crying, and figure out what you're going to do. You've graduated from Excelsior's tough program, and you've passed boards. You're obviously a smart, resilient nurse, and you'll get through this hassle, too.

A nurse who wants to practice nursing can open a private business to offer nursing services. I've been self-employed in nursing since 1982. Any nurse can do that. An NP certification isn't necessary. What is needed is a plan to practice within one's scope of practice. A nurse could also open a medical clinic as an entrepreneur and hire physicians and whoever else is needed to run such a clinic. I wish more nurses would go into business for themselves. It's a great thing. The one caution I'd give about opening a medical clinic is that such a business is not cheap to start up. I considered starting a walk-in emergency type medical clinic years ago, but realized I didn't have the $250,000 (then -- probably more now) I'd need just to get started. (The number came from a consultant I hired to see if it was feasible). Nurses are always ready to imagine what they can't do. I'd like to see more nurses try to imagine what they can do.

Memorize this, and use when needed: Smile pleasantly, and say, "I'm sorry, but I prefer not to talk about my salary."

Men -- usually -- make more money because we: 1. Tend to go into areas that are higher demand/higher pay. (Think critical care, anesthesia, etc.) 2. Are inclined to talk about money, and feel little discomfort in negotiating about it. (Someone who won't negotiate compensation should not complain about getting paid badly). 3. Tend to not take time off for family issues, so we tend to have longer, more consistent track records. 4. Are less inclined to take crap from abusive management types. Men who are confronted by idiots seldom go off "for a good cry." Usually, we will deal with the issue at hand. 5. Men just don't think it shameful to make a good living off their work. Every few weeks, you can be sure to find a thread on this site along the lines of "would I work for $11 an hour?" Frankly, discussions like that are embarrassing. 6. Men are usually in it for a good income, and aren't as easily bought off by being named Nurse of the Century or getting a Snickers bar in May for Nurses week. It really isn't complex. Start with an attitude of making a good income, stop being shy about talking about money, work in terms of money, negotiate, negotiate, negotiate (for example, if you're asked to work an extra shift, ask what they can give you in exchange), and always, always, always, let it be known that you'll quickly take another position if a better one comes along.

Of course she's not going to get the nomination. That's been over for at least 2 months. What is a problem is that nurses continue to worry about this. First, let's assume she said it. (She didn't, but for sake of argument, let's say she did). A president has no control over nurses' salaries. None. Second: I think this continuing fear is part of the whole issue of nurses feeling like there are big forces over us, somehow setting our pay. Sen. Clinton is just a manifestation of this paranoia. Let's say that somehow Sen. Clinton was elected president, and that somehow, she had power over nurse compensation, and that she decreed we would be paid $10 an hour. Would any of you work for that? I certainly wouldn't. All of us make the call about our compensation by agreeing to work for X amount, and continuing to work for that. We make the call, folks. It's our decision as to how much we make. Not Sen. Clinton's. Or Obama's. Or McCain's.

She didn't say it. Do even a quick Google search, and all that you find are similar reports of the rumors. I don't like Sen. Clinton. I think her election would be a very bad thing. But we should speak accurately about presidential candidates and their positions. Sen. Clinton is no fool. She is not going to say something like this. No politician is, given that 1 out of every 40 American women are nurses, and no one is going to insult 2.9 million voters.

The hospital has a "right" to do this. It's their business. And the non-BSN nurses have the right to take their skills elsewhere. I agree with another poster who suggested that this was likely an area with a lot of BSN-prepared nurses. It's just a matter of supply and demand.

OK, I'll be the mean person and say it: I think the whole nurses day/week/month/whatever is a crock. I've said before that were I a hospital administrator, I'd hire someone whose only job was to "make nurses feel appreciated," and I'd pay RNs minimum wage. And you know, I'm sure you could find nurses who would work under these conditions, if only they could periodically be "nurse of the month," or get a doily every May that says, "Nurses are special!" I always thought it was kind of funny to see the nurses week get-togethers. The women nurses are (90%, at least) beaming with joy at Being Recognized. And the men are looking slightly embarrassed, as if wondering what they're doing there. The bottom line is this: what I'm paid is recognition enough. I get paid quite well, and that's worth more to me than a plate of stale cake and a Snickers bar. I don't care if I get a pin. Just pay me well. We don't have National Engineers Week. We don't have an Accountants Day. Companies that employee electricians don't have teas in their honor. Why is the pink-collar professions so crave these little knick-knacks? And a slight apology to the poster I quoted: in case you haven't noticed, I'm not a feminist. Sometimes grumpy, just not a feminist.

You -- and the other employees -- got action because you showed the hospital that you meant business. That's the only thing hospital managements understand. What I am at pains to point out is that if an employers knows you will not leave, they have you over a barrel. What every nurse must make plain is this: when a better offer comes along, I'm gone. Without that kind of a threat (and the guts to back it up), there's nothing to stop the worst kind of treatment. There's nothing inherently wrong with an employer paying a new hire more than experienced nurses. We might not like it, but employers pay what they have to pay. And if they know that a nurse isn't going to leave, they may correctly assume they can get away with paying that nurse less. Hospital managements know that people get comfortable. We like our routines, and we don't like the idea of leaving, and management takes advantage of it. Getting used to frequent change is a good thing, and it keeps a nurse at the top of the pay scale.

I second the earlier advice: do a LOT of sticks, and you'll get better. No one's good the first dozen times. Learning this -- or anything -- isn't just a matter of the head knowledge, it's the feel you get for the client's arm, their vein structure, and a lot of other factors. Just keep doing it. Volunteer when one needs doing. You'll get good at it.

this wasn't to the BON, but it was interesting. A nurse I worked with years ago just got an odd feeling about a new surgeon. Something just wasn't right, so she did some investigating, and finds out he's not a surgeon. Nor an MD. Never even went to med school. He had worked as a corpsmen in the military, so I guess we should be thankful for small blessings. She reports her findings, and manages to get him removed from his new-found profession. The only problem is that this is a small town, and word gets around. And the guy in question had done a back surgery on my mother a year before. (The surgery actually went quite well). And when it hits the newspaper, my mom is furious, and assumes I knew all along, and that I had just taken this confidentiality thing a little too seriously. It took a while before she believed me, I think.

I think you did the right thing. As I mentioned earlier, I suspect this is a family problem being played out. As much as you can, stay out of that family problem. It's likely not solvable at this point, and in many family dramas, everyone's so invested that they don't want the problem solved. Part of "he has nowhere to go" is likely that no one in the family can stand him, either, and especially they don't want him in their homes. At least take comfort in knowing you're not alone in disliking this nasty man.

1. I ditto everyone who recommended having a word of prayer with your manager. Do that immediately. 2. Reading between the lines, this guy is a jerk, and the family doesn't want to deal with him. The family's problem is not your problem. 3. I would also encourage you to take control of this situation. If you are again given this guy's care, walk in the room, greet him firmly, and announce that if he touches you in the slightest, you will call the police. And do it. Do not call security, don't go in the bathroom and count to 10, don't complain to your manager. Just call 911 -- preferably from your cell phone -- and explain where you are -- give the room number -- and that you have been assaulted. Tell them you need the police. Then file a formal complaint. This is your documentation. Honestly, I would go ahead and call the police right now, file a complaint about the past hitting for documentation, but at the very least, don't allow it to happen again without making it unpleasant for both him and the facility. 4. You may count on your managers being annoyed that you've done this. Too bad. You must show them that you will no longer put up with this abuse. As others suggested, take pictures of the bruises, etc., but let there be no more bruises. This guy is a jerk, your managers know that he is a jerk, and you have been given this case -- I suspect -- because no one else will, and you have allowed them to abuse you as an employee. 5. You won't have to go this far, but if he so much as touches you again, announce to your manager that you are resigning from his care. I would let him starve before I would let him hit me again. People like this who are abusive have done it for years and have been allowed to get away with it. You must be one caregiver who will not allow him to be abusive. 6. A facility that allows staff to be abused like this will probably do it to you again. Have you considered looking for a job elsewhere? Good luck. The main thing I would encourage is, again, taking charge of this situation, and making sure it never happens to you again without some unpleasant consequences for this jerk.

I'm baffled by those who say "I'm not in it for the money." Would you work if you were not paid? If your answer is "no," then you're in it for the money. We're just negotiating a number. Did we take a vow of poverty that I don't remember? Why is it that nurses have a problem with saying, "I do a good job, I provide quality professional care for my patients, and I expect to be paid very well"?

i'm glad he didn't listen, too. all of us, every day, have things that -- if the worst were true -- could be something traumatic. but 99% of the time it's not. if we all went to the er every time we had abdominal pain, the ers would have nothing else to do. the point i was trying to make is that everyone makes mistakes. it's just humbling personally to know about this one.

My favorite story regarding appendectomies happened a few Christmases ago. We had had everyone over for a big meal and get together. My brother and his wife and 2 sons were there. Brother's concerned about my nephew's abdominal pain. Thinks it's an appendix issue. Wants me to look and see if I think so. So I did. The pain's "not right." (Most of you know what I mean). No nausea, no vomiting, no fever. Just nothing that quite looked like an appendix issue. After I had done my assessment, they headed back home. And when they got in the car, my brother tells his wife, "The heck with him. I think we need to go to the ER." So they did. And an hour later, my nephew is minus one vital organ. Those of you who have been nurses more than 20 minutes know how long it takes to live something like this down. :bowingpur

I know I sound pretty strong on this, but actually, I'm a big fan of work. Work because it pays the bills. But also because work provides a source of meaning in our lives, and gives us a chance to honestly be of service to others, to love them in a concrete, visible way. I tell my kids that I'm not going to retire until I turn 100 and of course, I'm joking, but only half-way: lots of folks -- especially us guys -- die pretty soon after retiring, and I think it's because we've lost a major focus and drive in life. If I won the lottery (not possible because I don't play it :wink2:) I suspect I'd do the same thing as this nurse does. My only complaint is that she manages to carry on the feeling that her co-workers "need" her. I'm sure they appreciate and value her, but I hope her patients need her more. I read another story a few weeks back. This British guy is 101, and he's getting ready to run a marathon. He went back to work 3 years ago because he was bored. Good for him!

We can agree to disagree. But I just have to point out: I have a career, and my work. I don't have a mission. Honestly, I think it is presumptuous and dishonest to regard nursing as a "mission," any more than I would consider pharmaceutical manufacturing or hospital administration or physical therapy a "mission." We have a job to do. Let's do it.

What does this have to do with the discussion at hand? This is theft, pure and simple. Equating theft and nurses doing their best to make as much money as they can tells us something about the way some nurses think about this subject.

I'm sorry to break this, but all jobs don't pay x amount of dollars. And part of the whole process of doing our work is knowing what pays, and what doesn't, and I would virtually guarantee that almost all those at this morale boosting conference were women. Because -- as an earlier poster pointed out -- men almost always think in terms of money. Not that it's the only thing. We look for what we enjoy, for what works for our families, for growth, but men almost never pretend that we are angels of mercy sent by God to sooth the fevered brow. Please. I believe the money will find you, too. I also believe in finding the money. I want nurses to find niche areas where they can be good, where they can grow, and where they can make a lot of money. If you do that, you'll be a better nurse, and you'll serve your patients better, PLUS ... you'll make more money. Don't kid yourself: a nurse who's making a lot of money is doing so because that nurse has found a way to serve patients better. Lots of women feel guilty about saying they want to make money. And employers can smell that guilt a block away, and will milk it for what it's worth. If you don't want to make money, you won't. Guaranteed.

1. Take a map. Decide how far you'd be willing to drive for a job. 2. Draw a circle around your home for the number of miles you're willing to travel. So, if you're willing to drive 20 miles, you draw a circle 20 miles out from your home.. 3. Get the names and addresses of every clinic and doctor's office within that circle. 4. Do a one page letter detailing your experience, your willingness to work hard, your ability to empathize with patients and work with a team. Include a web address (you can get one for less than $10 at places like GoDaddy). On your website, put your picture, an expanded resume, and a copy of your letter. (The website distinguishes you from almost everyone else, and indicates that you're creative, inventive, and willing to go a bit further. It also tells them that despite your lack of specific office experience, you're the type of nurse they want to hire). Of course, include your address, home and cell phone numbers, and an email address. 5. Get enough copies of that letter printed to send to every address in your radius. Have it professionally printed (a place like Pip) with a flattering, professional picture of yourself at the top. Send it out. I'm guessing you'll have multiple job offers (which means you get the pick of the best ones), and you'll be working at a place you like within a month.

Used to be a member. In fact, I was president of the local chapter for a year. But I quit. Because for whatever reason, the ANA is an elitist group (at least it was here) consisting of mostly professors and a few administrators. Not that there's anything wrong with either of those specialties, but the ANA doesn't represent the average nurse. So when the ANA claims to speak for all nurses, it's a little unrealistic. I appreciate some of the stuff they do, and I use some of their products, but I don't pretend that they represent anything more than their membership.

The bigger question is whether those who have "kicked, punched, slapped, bitten, pinched, etc." you have been made to deal with it? Have you called the police when these events happened? If not, why not? Nurses need to have a zero-tolerance policy for such matters. When something happens, call the police. Press charges, if the situation warrants it. Do not cry. Do not complain to co-workers. Do not call hospital security. Just call the police. It doesn't matter who did it. Just call the police. Facilities that tolerate this kind of behavior do so because they can, and because there are not consequences. Nurses who press charges against offenders indicate that they, at least, will not tolerate it.

This isn't complicated. A nurse shows up for work at a facility, and finds that she will be caring for, say, 8 acutely ill patients. The nurse has to make a call if this is a dangerous ratio or not. If it's dangerous, the nurse must announce -- to a supervisor, "This is a dangerous and unsafe nurse-patient ratio, and I will not work under these circumstances." If the supervisors do not modify the ratios, the nurse must -- without having accepted care of the patients -- walk out. (If the nurse has accepted care of the patients, she is abandoning them if she leaves). The hospital has chosen to accept a certain number of patients, and it is their responsibility to ensure that there will be adequate staffing for those patients. Of course, a nurse who makes such a judgment will likely lose her job, but better to lose one's job than to lose one's license. I have no quarrel with someone who feels it's safe to work with X number of patients. But the idea that under non-disaster conditions we should work with whatever number of patients are given to us is ridiculous. Not to mention dangerous. If you provide unsafe, inadequate or sub-professional care, a board of nursing won't care if you had 8 or 20 or 100 patients. You chose to accept that number, and did not protest. You will be held to a reasonable standard of care whether you had 1 or 1,000 patients.