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Back2SchoolRN
45 Posts
Having gotten a 4-year degree via a great brick and mortar school, and 2 degrees online, I've always been a big supporter of quality, reasonably priced online education, even for clinical degrees. I've had some eye-opening experiences, though, that showed me that, as usual, nothing is without some potential negatives. Lately I've done much more reading about programs in general--not just how to choose the good ones, but what can go wrong, and how.
I'm thinking it's time to have fresher, better-balanced talks about online schools, and what to watch out for. How prevalent are these abuses? Are students afraid to speak out? What red flags do we need to watch for, and how can we help stop the abuse, vs. just keeping our heads down, mouths shut, and escaping with our new degrees and jobs as fast as we can?
I have read many scary things, and don't know which are true, but have seen and experienced enough to know many MUST be true. Unfortunately, one striking feature of online schools is that many go to great (sometimes subtle) lengths to isolate each "cohort" from the others, so no warning about upcoming classes, requirements, etc. is possible. Nowhere NEAR as much discussion about what to expect later in your program, why some students dropped out or were dropped, pending program changes, or anything else occurs between groups.
These are the concerns I have seen raised; I would welcome feedback from graduates, "rejectees", former professors, and current ones. Of the educators, I ask that you be objective if someone posts about negative experiences, because if your a school doesn't do it, great--but maybe others aren't like your school. And for those who do post, please specify which degree you were seeking, hw far you got, how you found the school, and most of all, whether you are speaking from experience or word of mout
- Aggressive recruitment via "enrollment advisors", "admissions counselors" who exaggerate how quickly and easily one can graduate compared to "brick and mortar schools, but don't discuss the often double cost, or the sometimes more rigorous testing or super-heavy project-type homework online students have to pass to demonstrate proficiency.
...Not that this is bad, but "easier" or "time-saving" or "faster progression" would be would then be lies, wouldn't they? Instead honesty, and emphasizing that these extra burdens (excepting the cost) helps make sure the education they get is adequate and the degree rightfully respected.
- Lots of unmentioned extra fees for books, adding and dropping courses, miscellaneous fees such as "technology fee", "course fee", "materials fee" (What materials? For many schools, the student independently finds and purchases required books/items.)
- Aggressive marketing and enrollment o students who probably won't make it, based on prior statistics, with the intention of making money off all students, but later "weeding" out those less likely to make the school shine, or least like the "ideal student" they like to picture in the ads and testimonials. Reportedly, some do this by letting those students get through basic courses that cost the school little money because they are largely automated, and then using a much harder (or performance exam that could be graded in a highly-subjective manner) requirement at a key point to "weed out" the potential "non-representative" students, the ones who ask too many questions or have complaints, or "likely-to-fail Boards or drop out later". In this way they could possible save money before the "cohort" reaches the stage requiring more individual attention, more live instructor time, more faculty or resources.
- Fail to mention that they are not yet accredited, are facing possible loss of accreditation, can't (or won't)help you find clinical practicum sites, will need to update their curriculum to meet new standards (so that your "cohort" year is grandfathered in, but if you transfer or pause in your training, you may have deficiencies to be corrected before you can move on).
- Requiring students to use Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, or other public for-profit sites for implementation of school projects, in some cases requiring the student to create a profile and postings available to the public until after the course. (I can vouch for 2 of these.)
- Requiring a student to involve his workplace in school project, without advance warning, even if the student may have good reason to keep his schooling private or his school very separate from the workplace. Allowing alternatives, but only too late and without guidance as to appropriate alternatives. Awarding lower grades to those whose options at short notice won't permit completion in the normal way or time frame. (All schools have some requirements with practical barriers, but such information is posted in advance or passes easily by word of mouth form one cohort to the next, so that these are hard, not impossible.) Basing nursing practice or performance projects in the hospital setting, so that students who work elsewhere must go begging to local hospitals to be granted insider access to policies and procedures and business practices.
- Describe very basic technology requirements such as "Windows XP or later", "broadband recommended" and then spring much higher ones on you without warning, or hold the student to more proficient use of technology than the professors themselves are capable of without help and coaching during the course from their IT departments. Dropping students whose equipment doesn't (all of a sudden) measure up.
- While charging much higher tuition i some cases, being much less available to assist online students, because they have a full day with their "real" traditional students. (I can vouch for this, in at least one circumstance; I had a critical concern, with a deadline looming, and was told the professor could not respond because she was supervising students in clinical that day!) In other words, expecting students of online schools not just to be high-initiative, relatively independent, but to actually do without the normal amount of support and advice. "Treating us like the stepchildren" is one comment I've seen on this site.
- Advertising their warmth toward older and minority students, and their respect for disabilities, but falling far short in retaining those students and meeting their needs. Making presumptions about them based on these characteristics, even unintentionally. Assuming, for example, any student over 50 is probably "technology challenged".
- As with many brick-and-mortar schools), refusing transfer credit on nearly-identical courses from other accredited schools taken in the last 1-5 years, just for the money.
- Designing the programs to be delivered in a set sequence, one at a time--which can be advantageous in some ways such as simplicity--and making each prerequisite to the others, even when there is no relationship between them or other schools give them in a different order. When these courses are only offered once a year, which is common, a student who has to drop one course much sit out a year, and in many cases even re-apply, even if otherwise in good standing. (This could be very advantageous to such a school, especially if coupled with #8, since this means students may have to start all over again at another school, or be kept waiting in the wings for a year (or more!), to fill in any holes left by too many drop-outs in next year's cohort.) How might this skew the graduation/Board pass rates?
- Not counting "suggested texts" and materials as part of the cost of the program, yet basing enough of the content on them that students who don't purchase them re at a disadvantage.
- Again, charging much more and offering less to students online, while treating their traditional students in the same exact program much better--for example, arranging preceptors and practicum sites and regular contact with true faculty advisors for traditional students, but denying this help to online students within commuting distance of the school (!)
- Using 3rd-party materials and services or a course, and charging the student more than double what the 3rd party resource charges the public for the same thing....yet denying students who drop access to the materials if they leave. (For example, a pre-certification prep course for NPs, on a topic covered in the school's curriculum. Sometimes this IS the course, with a bit of added homework graded by junior faculty.
- Grading assignments, but providing little or no feedback on what was good and where improvement i needed, so that the student does not improve study focus throughout the course and may not even know where his/her deficiencies lie, which is a set-up for failure.
- Having an alleged "open-door policy" for academic or course concerns, and strongly advising consultations as needed, but having actual requests relegated to junior faculty whose responses may consist of a few phrases sent from an iPhone.
- Failing to mention major requirements, such as on site "intensives" until the student is well into the program (though these may be wonderful for confidence and competency, if you can't go to them and must leave the program, then they are disastrous, aren't they?)
- Charging tuition about 40% of what the average medical school charges, while graduates earn less than 40% of the MD's pay. Some NP students have loans totaling over 1500.00 a month! (Where did hey go to school?! But you can find those discussions galore on the pages about making those payments. "Loan forgiveness programs and other helps may be over-stated--but carefully-by implication only-by enrollment "advisors".
- In a rush to be 2015 compliant, offering a heavily-padded thrown-together DNP degree that carries little new PRACTICE or clinical knowledge, but is almost entirely additional courses in public policy, leadership, nursing theory, health care systems, leadership, informatics, research, leadership, evaluation of research, etc. (I would have to agree that although public health and policy are important, knowing more about actual clinical practice, if you are considered at the pinnacle of knowledge for practice, could be more helpful and appropriate! If there isn't room for both, we need doctoral programs in public health, health systems management...Oh--we have those already, don't we?)
- Just in general, making the online programs the "cash cows" that require little feeding, while the traditional students pay less and are properly nurtured. I don't know how you can measure this, but if you've been to both types of schools, and strongly felt this, it would be interesting to know when/why. Have you transferred from one to the other?
There are more; I can't remember them all. That said, online schooling is the new normal, has wonderful benefits, can be in some cases superior to traditional training, and attracts many excellent students and educators. Sorting out the good form the bad, standing up against the unethical, greedy or sloppy practices before they spoil it for the good ones...these are our responsibility as professionals.
So, share, please: Have you personally experienced this? What did you do? A classmate or family member, so you saw it up close, no misunderstandings? Did you have a near-miss, but found out in time? Do you know of a class-action lawsuit over such topics, and what was the outcome? Did your schooling take much longer and cost much more than was described, even though you followed the normal path and passed all your classes?
Educators or school employees, is your school taking steps to avoid or correct potential or actual, but totally unintended, problems such as these? Do you find yourself having to defend online schooling form students who've heard the worst or had bad experiences? What do you think when a student mentions prior negative experiences, in a polite way? Would you be afraid to accept or keep him, for fear he would spread negativity?
Did you leave a school because you did not condone its practices, or wish you could leave? Have you had an experience that was totally different, and would you care to share where?
As prospective students, our job is to research, research, research, BEFORE you sign on. Not just individual schools, which may be rated by biased or 3rd-party aid recruiting sites, but the industry in general, THEN each school.