NP vs MD Pay

jer_sd · Jul 12, 2006

Well in that case more agressive NPs should look into employment contracts that pay according to RVUs rather than just a set salary. Keep in mind E+M reinbursement looks ike it will be going up this year which may allow for higher salaries for providers relying on thoes services.

Another option is being an self employeed bill for your services, have a proffesional service agreement with the previous employeer. The employer wins since they no longer have to pay workers comp, taxes ect... But this would mean a lot of headaches with billing and becoming a provider on insurance pannels.

Jeremy

cgfnp · Jul 12, 2006

Well in that case more agressive NPs should look into employment contracts that pay according to RVUs rather than just a set salary. Keep in mind E+M reinbursement looks ike it will be going up this year which may allow for higher salaries for providers relying on thoes services.
Another option is being an self employeed bill for your services, have a proffesional service agreement with the previous employeer. The employer wins since they no longer have to pay workers comp, taxes ect... But this would mean a lot of headaches with billing and becoming a provider on insurance pannels.
Jeremy

Good points, but I wish we didn't have to do this to earn what we're worth if we're willing to be worth what we say we're worth. :trout:

alwaysintheknow · Jul 13, 2006

Any other NPs out there frustrated with the huge gap in pay between NP and MD? No, I don't think we are equals in training, but from a purely business productivity standpoint in certain situations (ie outpatient clinics) since reimbursement is the same for our services and MD services, why is there such a huge gap in pay? Is it because we accept this pay? I think so. We need to stop settling for the ridiculous $60K/yr when the MD doing the same thing is making over twice that. Yes, I think they should make more for the longer prep. But not that much.
I think one of the reasons is I have heard several occasions where the NP in a clinic is lazy, gripes when they have to see more than one patient per hour, and therefore only produces enough to be worth 50-60K/yr. I am seeing clinics offering salaries based on this scenario more often than not. This produces survey figures and other data that clinic administration use to determine what salary to offer that are, in my opinion, inadequate. Now don't get me wrong, if that's all you want to do and make, then by all means do so.
If a NP is seeing 20-30 pts per day and generating the kind of revenue that phyisicians often do in clinics, then I see no reason that we shouldn't be pulling at least $100-120K/yr for this work. This seems more than fair to me. Any other thoughts on this? If we don't do something to change this together, the $50K/yr offers will just keep coming and no one will know any better.

They pay that because they can. There's always someone that can fill your shoes as in PAs. HArd to bargain when you have others wanting your job.

cgfnp · Jul 13, 2006

They pay that because they can. There's always someone that can fill your shoes as in PAs. HArd to bargain when you have others wanting your job.

Exactly. There inlies the problem. PAs and NPs both should quit taking such low wages if you generate more $$$. I had plenty of classmates who I could hear talking about not caring if they made less than they did as a RN... but in those cases you get what you pay for.

The only way hospitals, clinics, and other employers of NP and PAs are going to change is if we make them aware of this shortfall. We should laugh or ask what we are going to do the other 6 months of the year when offered $60K/yr so they are aware that this is unacceptable. If we hear the figure and then silently nod as if we're actaully considering it they will still think it's okay.

alwaysintheknow · Jul 14, 2006

Exactly. There inlies the problem. PAs and NPs both should quit taking such low wages if you generate more $$$. I had plenty of classmates who I could hear talking about not caring if they made less than they did as a RN... but in those cases you get what you pay for.
The only way hospitals, clinics, and other employers of NP and PAs are going to change is if we make them aware of this shortfall. We should laugh or ask what we are going to do the other 6 months of the year when offered $60K/yr so they are aware that this is unacceptable. If we hear the figure and then silently nod as if we're actaully considering it they will still think it's okay.

And with the boatloads of new NP and PA schools popping up all over the country saturating the market with providers, I doubt we will be able to bargain for higher salaries in the near future.

brownrice · Jul 14, 2006

Alwaysintheknow~~~~~~~

Perhaps considering various market factors, even a "flood of new NP/PA graduates" may not create an excess of providers. One must look at all variables...like aging population base, people living longer, fewer medical students choosing specialties instead of primary care, current average age of MD and NP providers, ever increasing scope of practice for NP's (GA NP's can now write prescriptions!!) etc.