Characteristic c-diff odor??

SL233 · May 27, 2011

If the odor is that bad (it is)---it is the least of the problems with C. Diff for professionals. And for patients.

Seriously, why don't we have the ACCURATE PCR Assay test for C. Diff in every lab? Certainly it should be in every major medical center---but it's not! Truly, it is not. How absurd! It puts healthcare workers at risk themselves, much less the patients, and simply makes our healthcare costs higher (when they need not be.)

I shake my head when I read about the "ick" factor to "fecal infusions"---then I read a post like this (which has its truths, for sure) but if the ODOR alone is that bad, how bad can ODORLESS fecal infusions with high curative rates be? What in the world is so "icky" about them? I really don't get it.

And what kills those stubborn C. Diff spores, ready for the next sick patient? Clorox. Plain and simple Clorox. Proper cleaning. Proper handwashing. Use of probiotics (know which ones crowd out C. Diff the most). I am very serious about the growing virulence of this bacteria, as it mutates in the face of Vanco, Flagyl, and Xifaxan. Patients in this country should not have to undergo surgery to have parts of their colon removed because of C. Diff infections.

Patients in this country should not have to develop sepsis because this country and its hospitals have a phobic "ick" factor re: fecal infusions/transplants or because proper testing is unavailable. Again, check out the routine procedure to handle this situation in all Scandinavian countries. Their nurses and other health care professionals don't have to deal so much with the horrible odor of C. Diff, and their patients don't have to live with the horror of having C. Diff recurrences, sometimes moving into CDAD.

Nurses have more power than they realize, or maybe they realize it, but don't use it. Demand PCR assays for C. Diff that are reliable tests (quicker treatment, less odor, less pain for patients, less dehydration, less sepsis, fewer virulent outbreaks like the 2004 one in Quebec.) Demand fecal infusions. Not MORE antibiotics ONLY--for I obviously realize the importance of antibiotics (but they will only lead to more virulent strains of C. Diff) and more odor for every nurse who deals with these sick patients. As mentioned above, in Scandinavian countries, first C. Diff illness is treated with vanco or flagyl. If another episode of C. Diff occurs, STANDARD procedure with fabulous success: fecal infusions.

raggyann · May 28, 2011

TOTAL AGREEMENT SL233!!

So glad your here! Please keep in mind ladies and gents if your child is in the hospital with C Diff, this is the response, this is the kind of nurse you are going to want in the room caring for your child. Not the nurse who hides behind a wall laughing with her/his co workers at the horrible smell in room 103. This is the best of the best. I sure hope if it happens to me or my child I will be lucky enough to get a nurse like SL233.

raggyann · May 28, 2011

SL233, What products do you recommend for the best probiotics?

ericanicole · May 28, 2011

Very foul smelling. I learned of fecal transplants last year to treat chronic c-diff. Very interesting. It was not FDA approved at the time and was in trial. It was explained to me that a family member would be a donor and the donated fecal material would be "transplanted" into the patient. The idea was that the normal flora would be reintroduced into the patients body and fight off the c-diff.

raggyann · May 28, 2011

:monkeydance: Okay, now what about Crohn's Disease? How accurate is the testing for that and is their potential for C Diff to be mistaken for Crohn's?

SL233 · May 28, 2011

raggyann,

Probiotic of choice is Saccharomyces boulardii--you can find pretty good scientific research on this particular "good yeast" that crowds out C. Diff or has the potential to, as long as it survives the stomach acids which is the trick, I suppose. That's why it's important to have a product with enough CFUs. (I think Pure Encapsulations---you can access this on the internet---and also order anything from their site--not just probiotics--- and get "physicians price" which is about half the cost if you ordered without that.

You have to register---can do this online or by phone---they'll want your healthcare professional info in order for you to get the discounted price.) Pure Encapsulations offers high quality products. For instance, the probiotics arrive in a cooler and must go into your refrigerator. The other two main probiotics needed with C. Diff are L. acidophilus and Bifidobacterium strains (can get these in any number of places, but I order from Pure Encapsulations---get other things from them, too. Check out the site. Maybe you can start selling to some physicians!

I don't think antibiotics should be given without also giving probiotics during and after antibiotic use (esp. after stopping antibiotics---and I mean antibiotics regardless of diagnosis.)

I keep Probiotic-5 (Pure Encapsulations) on hand for my family because we take probiotics daily anyway. If anyone in the family is on antibiotics, I add in the S. Boulardii. My husband has sinus infections connected to allergies. Whenever he takes a z-pac, he automatically goes to the frig and takes the probiotics. Why in the world this isn't a standard practice, I don't know. I guess because health insurance doesn't cover probiotics. On outpatient basis, surely, though, doctors can inform their patients about this! And it doesn't mean to eat yogurt only---and Activa (while it tastes good has too much sugar.) The Greek yogurts (plain---I know---sour!) or vanilla are the best. Also, coconut milk (Whole Foods---SO Delicious brand--with pre and probiotics is good and just healthy. We're talking about what is coming to be known as a major player in our immune systems---our gut flora that needs to stay as healthy as possible. OK---enough, I know!

SL233 · May 28, 2011

I have a researcher/clinician friend at a major university who got the approval of the Gastroenterology Dept. to do a fecal infusion (patient had multiple recurrences) and the infusion was a success (it's been about 5 years or so now.) When the Med Center Public Relations got wind of this, they forbade him to do anymore. (Absurd!!) A colleague of his at another one of our very best medical research/clinical centers did the same and got roundly berated by PR at that Center. Only place I know of in the USA where fecal infusions are done (and done well, it appears) is in Duluth, Minnesota. There might be another place at this point---surely in CA there are some! Really is a "transplant" actually--of sorts-- when you think about it.

ericanicole · May 28, 2011

The place that was experimentally doing the fecal "infusions" was in Saginaw, MI. Maybe they are flying under the radar.

SL233 · May 28, 2011

Here's the one I've heard of. There are some in Canada. Surely there are more in the USA too. Other than the place you mention, I haven't heard of any, though.

http://www.duluthclinic.org/specialtycenters/digestivehealth/stooltransplant.htm

raggyann · May 29, 2011

Re: characteristic c-diff odor??

It is referred to as a transplant in the medical community. They are doing them in India as well.

Eric64 · Sep 10, 2011

to me, C-Diff diarrhea smells like a combination of diarrhea and finger nail polish remover, or even radiator fluid + diarrhea... a wretched, sweet smell that is unforgettable.

Eric64 · Sep 10, 2011

oh and I have c-diff diarrhea for 12 days now, and started a pro-biotic called Ultimate Flora Critical Colon 80 Billion, which, after only 3 doses, started to cause my bm's to go from liquid to firm... I'm very impressed.