The Infamous Cab-ulance

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I'm curious to know some of the things your patients call the ambulance for. Just recently we've had patients who present to the ED via EMS and c/o ripped cuticle, or a med refill, along with many more complaints that, in my opinion, absolutely do not justify the need for emergency medical services. The worst one lately, though, was a patient who presented to the ED and when getting off the stretcher, stated that they just needed a ride to this side of town to get to their friend's house and simply walked out the EMS bay doors. I was flabbergasted.

What inane EMS runs have you experienced?

I'm curious where your information comes from pertaining to most paramedics transport for convenience and using their emotions to dictate transfer? You say "most" can you define that more?

Also in the video- the patient was not an emergency AFTER they gave the narcan- he was alert- talking and aware of his medications all three if those lead me to believe he was stable. If a basic Emt were to show up to that scene they would of scooped and gone no meds could b given- that patient could of been in respiratory distress,cardiac distress or already dead before arriving to the hospital. I don't believe a paramedic can claim they are a mid level practitioner they are trained to quickly assess life threatening injuries- treat appropriately and transport. A paramedic is a paramedic their scope of practice is the same in the US.

-Y do they need so many to show up? Because not all situation are for one to two paramedics. You have to take into account- lifting the patient- starting an iv- ekgs- airway support and sometimes dealing w family, the police can not always b on scene for that. I for one would feel better knowing I had to many on scene than not enough and wait for extra hands that may delay care. I'm not saying the EMS system is perfect and I'm sure there are many flaws however just like in the ED we can not just refuse caring for a patient because they r frequent flyers.I'm also curious what does a masters degree help with? You still are under the direction of a medical director and can only do so much before arriving at the hospital. A masters degree may give you more knowledge as to disease processes that you read in a book- hands on experience is sometimes more valuable. I guess I have never worked w a crew that felt they were 'to good' or 'overqualified' to go on a call.

Specializes in CRNA.
What has EMS done to improve things? There is no way Paramedics in the US are prepared to run at the same level as those in other countries which have a Masters degree. Six to eight months of training do not make you a mid level practitioner. Most of the "treat and release" by Paramedics in the US are done by convenience for the Paramedics and with the benefit of the patient in mind. Usually there is some "emotional" motive which determines who the Paramedic wants to transport and who they don't. Just ask any of the EMTs for BLS ambulance which does most of the transports because the ALS truck has something better to do like get back to the station. If Paramedics are allowed to treat and release or refuse to transport the patient, they still get the patient to sign an RMA or AMA form rather than taking responsibility themselves for chosing not to transport.

Here is an article which is an embarrassment and didn't get many comments because it sent the wrong message.

People That ‘Fly’ Frequently Behave Badly « KRON4

Three trucks to one call and then for these Paramedics to complain about a patient not being an emergency even though they gave narcan. Unfortunately this an example of EMS in the US for many major cities. Why do you need 3 trucks and 4 - 6 Paramedics for every call and then complain about not having enough trucks for "emergencies"?

I also wonder what would happen to the EMT and Paramedic classes if the students were told on the first day that 98% of the calls they will do will be routine and all that emergency hero life saving stuff is mostly in the movies to sell tickets? It is too bad the training for Paramedics is not done a little differently to better prepare them for reality. Then maybe a different set of professionals could actually see things clearer and come up with a better way.

Six to eight months of training for a paramedic? I spent two years training to be a paramedic. The same amount of time most nurses spend for their ADN (not counting pre-reqs). I spent about 4-6 months getting my EMT-B, then another 18 months getting my EMT-P. I had over 500 hrs of clinicals (for paramedic) between Lab for iv sticks and blood draw, OR for intubations, ICU for cardiac and pharm, OB for L&D, ER for just about everything else, psych, dialysis, then my ems clinicals on the truck.

I can not speak for a system that has both BLS and ALS trucks, because I have always worked for an ALS system. We never responded to a call that BLS was sent out on then called for backup, it was always our calls. There were so many times that I wanted to say, "hey you don't need to go to the hospital for this, because this is complete bs." But guess what, we still had to transport. I knew when I was getting into ems that not every call would be a code or trauma. I also spent my first year or two busting my butt in a transfer station. Yes I have had some very sick patients. Multiple patients on vents, on propofol drips, on cardizem drips, blood hanging. You name it and I have probably transported it. And i'm not talking about short 15-20 minute trips, even though I've had those. I'm talking about two to four hour transfers where your the only one keeping those patients alive to get to a higher level of care than the previous hospital.

I'm curious where your information comes from pertaining to most paramedics transport for convenience and using their emotions to dictate transfer? You say "most" can you define that more?

Also in the video- the patient was not an emergency AFTER they gave the narcan- he was alert- talking and aware of his medications all three if those lead me to believe he was stable. If a basic Emt were to show up to that scene they would of scooped and gone no meds could b given- that patient could of been in respiratory distress,cardiac distress or already dead before arriving to the hospital. I don't believe a paramedic can claim they are a mid level practitioner they are trained to quickly assess life threatening injuries- treat appropriately and transport. A paramedic is a paramedic their scope of practice is the same in the US.

-Y do they need so many to show up? Because not all situation are for one to two paramedics. You have to take into account- lifting the patient- starting an iv- ekgs- airway support and sometimes dealing w family, the police can not always b on scene for that. I for one would feel better knowing I had to many on scene than not enough and wait for extra hands that may delay care. I'm not saying the EMS system is perfect and I'm sure there are many flaws however just like in the ED we can not just refuse caring for a patient because they r frequent flyers.I'm also curious what does a masters degree help with? You still are under the direction of a medical director and can only do so much before arriving at the hospital. A masters degree may give you more knowledge as to disease processes that you read in a book- hands on experience is sometimes more valuable. I guess I have never worked w a crew that felt they were 'to good' or 'overqualified' to go on a call.

Where do I get my info from? Thirty years of working in EMS and EDs along with attending state and national conferences as well as state and regional meetings listening to all the problems which plague EMS. Talking to Paramedics everyday and reading some of the EMS forums will also give you a better idea about what i happening in EMS.You would have to be living under a rock to not know of the current EMS situation across the US. Even picking up some fluff mag like JEMS can give you more insight on the issues being discussed in EMS about a

I see you are also one of the street smarts person who doesn't believe book learning is of much value. You obviously have no idea about the EMS systems in other countries. Did you know they will include over 2000 hours of clinicals in their Masters degree? They actually learn why and when they should do a particular skill or give a med. This would include the administration of narcan. An ASSESSMENT should be done. You don't just write off this person as being a waste of time because you dislike being bothered by people who have addictions. Until these addicts have an alternative for care, this will continue. If there are no alternative resources the Paramedic needs to consider that rather than ******** about having to go on a call.

Some EMTs can give narcan along with a few other meds. But, what I was referring to is the complaints from EMTs who get dumped on by Paramedis to transpot a patient who could benefit from some ALS intervention.

The gist of the news article is having to respond to the drug addict. Paramedics know they have to transport per protocol.

Six to eight months of training for a paramedic? I spent two years training to be a paramedic. The same amount of time most nurses spend for their ADN (not counting pre-reqs). I spent about 4-6 months getting my EMT-B, then another 18 months getting my EMT-P. I had over 500 hrs of clinicals (for paramedic) between Lab for iv sticks and blood draw, OR for intubations, ICU for cardiac and pharm, OB for L&D, ER for just about everything else, psych, dialysis, then my ems clinicals on the truck.

I can not speak for a system that has both BLS and ALS trucks, because I have always worked for an ALS system. We never responded to a call that BLS was sent out on then called for backup, it was always our calls. There were so many times that I wanted to say, "hey you don't need to go to the hospital for this, because this is complete bs." But guess what, we still had to transport. I knew when I was getting into ems that not every call would be a code or trauma. I also spent my first year or two busting my butt in a transfer station. Yes I have had some very sick patients. Multiple patients on vents, on propofol drips, on cardizem drips, blood hanging. You name it and I have probably transported it. And i'm not talking about short 15-20 minute trips, even though I've had those. I'm talking about two to four hour transfers where your the only one keeping those patients alive to get to a higher level of care than the previous hospital.

Two years tell us very little. Many programs are stretch out the same numbers of "hours of trainig" over a long period of time. EMT is also only about 110 to 150 hours which could be done in 3 weeks. 500 hours of clinicals is not much when compared to nurses or other allied health professionals which require an Associates degree and 800 to 1200 hours of clinicals. The fact that your clinicals were only 500 hours means you did not spend much time in any one area very long. The fact that you seem to brag about high acuity transports but did not mention any ICU experience could be an indication you don't know what you don't know about critcal care patients. Scary to say the least that these transports are still common in EMS even with all the adverse events which have been documented. You could easily have told the hospital you did not want to be the only one keeping the patient alive and they would have been obligated to send RNs and/or RTs with you. Don't let your ego get you in over your head and do harm or kill the patient on this long CCTs. The sending hospital should also be held accountable. If the transfer originated in the ED, this is an EMTALA violation if you were not properly educated and trained for these transports or you were by yourself with these patients.

I'm sorry you misunderstood my comment about book smart vs street smart. I believe highly in education. But do you believe someone just out of school is better than your 30+ years of training and experience because they hold a higher certificate?

You were putting down "most " paramedics by 'hear say per conferences and talking to others and reading magazines yet I you dont give any specific referenced non biased statistics regarding such instances of transfers being refused or lack of care d /t that medics opinions of them. And if your such a believer of another countries policies for training maybe you should practice there.

Everyone has an opinion and I was simply asking for clarification of yours to try and understand it better- you don't teach someone or try to make a difference by putting that person down and accusing them of living under a rock .and for the record anyone that does a procedure or gives a med and doesn't understand the 'why' behind it- has no business in the medical profession.

Specializes in CRNA.
Two years tell us very little. Many programs are stretch out the same numbers of "hours of trainig" over a long period of time. EMT is also only about 110 to 150 hours which could be done in 3 weeks. 500 hours of clinicals is not much when compared to nurses or other allied health professionals which require an Associates degree and 800 to 1200 hours of clinicals. The fact that your clinicals were only 500 hours means you did not spend much time in any one area very long. The fact that you seem to brag about high acuity transports but did not mention any ICU experience could be an indication you don't know what you don't know about critcal care patients. Scary to say the least that these transports are still common in EMS even with all the adverse events which have been documented. You could easily have told the hospital you did not want to be the only one keeping the patient alive and they would have been obligated to send RNs and/or RTs with you. Don't let your ego get you in over your head and do harm or kill the patient on this long CCTs. The sending hospital should also be held accountable. If the transfer originated in the ED, this is an EMTALA violation if you were not properly educated and trained for these transports or you were by yourself with these patients.

I believe my course was around 1100-1200 hours. So around 700 in classroom, learning what we needed for the field with everything from A&P, Pharm, Cardiology, Respiratory, Assessment skills, etc. Along with ACLS and PALS before we could test for our National Registry. Our new grads that are hired into the ER don't even have ACLS. If you want to talk about scary, it's that. Your working codes without certifications.

Your right I didn't spend massive amounts of time in one area, that is because we have to be able to handle anything that comes up in the field. But there were two areas that were the majority of our clinicals hours and that was ER and EMS ride alongs. During the EMS ride alongs we had to have so many calls were we where running the calls with the paramedic assisting us and only stepping in if we messed up or something was over our heads at the time.

You might have missed how I had spent clinicals hours in the ICU, or were you too lazy to read that? I live in Oklahoma and we have two major trauma centers. One in Oklahoma City and one in Tulsa. The major hospitals are in OKC and Tulsa. Sometimes you have two to fours hour transfers if you were coming from a small level four hospital that needed to get someone to a level I or level II and medievac was not flying that day to bad weather.

Ok now your starting to tick me off by saying that my transports were EMTALA violations. You think that we are not properly trained. You are DEAD WRONG. We are signed off on everything we do by our medical directors which are the same MD's and DO's that are giving you your orders in the ER. They trust us to use our ASSESSMENT SKILLS and DECISION MAKING to determine what needs to be done on our calls. But I don't want to this to be an EMS vs Nursing battle. I'm just defending my brothers and sisters who you are basically calling stupid monkeys who can barely think for themselves.

And by the way, I WAS NOT BRAGGING about anything. I was stating what kind of calls that paramedics are doing every single day. Also you mention that an RN or RT could ride along. I don't know many hospitals that would spare an RN or RT for a transfer. The only time that I have had an RN or RT with me was during NICU transfers where we went to get the pt from an outlying facility and transported them back to Tulsa.

Very we'll said! Thank you for your service in the EMS system- the PASSION that you possess for your job shows in your response to the thread. And that is something that can't be taught.

But do you believe someone just out of school is better than your 30+ years of training and experience because they hold a higher certificate?
Your comment makes not sense. If it takes 30 years of "street smarts" to be compared with a new grad with a college degree than I think my point has been made.

Let's make a more realistic comparison here. If your Paramedic who graduates from a certificate program with just the minimum "hours of training" which does not have full college level A&P courses with labs, pharmacology or pathophysiology is compared with one who has a solid Associates degree, where do you think both will be in 5 years. Both will have "street smarts" but the one with a solid education will also have the ability to discount some of the "street smarts" because of the "that's have we've always done it.

You were putting down "most " paramedics by 'hear say per conferences and talking to others and reading magazines yet I you dont give any specific referenced non biased statistics regarding such instances of transfers being refused or lack of care d /t that medics opinions of them.

Stating Paramedics need to raise their education beyond a tech cert in order to get "advanced skills and protocols or guidelines" is not putting them down.

Hearsay? These conferences have medical directors (doctors) of real EMS agencies, experiences Paramedics and regional/state leaders for EMS. This is not bar room or anonymous forum gossip. We also have some of the headlines makers of serious screw-ups but there are others which don't all make the news because of privacy policies. Exactly how many patients are denied transport is easily skewed because of what I mentioned earlier with the RMA or AMA forms. Usually it is not until a death is involved that we find out a big bad issue with an agency such as with Washington DC. If you don't know about the problems there which have been heavily scrutinized then you probably don't know too much about EMS.

Here is a presentation, including some of the stats you want.

http://gatheringofeagles.us/2010/Presentations/Eckstein - Mandatory Transport.pdf

If you are really serious about learning more for knowledge and not just to start a "picking on poor EMS" emotional mess, I would be happy to provide more data.

And if your such a believer of another countries policies for training maybe you should practice there.

Everyone has an opinion and I was simply asking for clarification of yours to try and understand it better- you don't teach someone or try to make a difference by putting that person down and accusing them of living under a rock .and for the record anyone that does a procedure or gives a med and doesn't understand the 'why' behind it- has no business in the medical profession.

Enough with the emotional mud slinging. Higher education for the advancement of any profession is on the table. CMS looks at this when it comes to patient outcomes and reimbursement.

Many in the US would like to move to another country to work in EMS because of their higher education and autonomy. But, work visas and regulation of outsiders entering the work force in another country make this difficult. It is no different with nurses.

You are not my student. I am not trying to teach you anything. But, I am trying to give you more insight to the problems faced today by EMS. It is way more fragmented than nursing and it is probably less than 1/10th the size of nursing.

I believe my course was around 1100-1200 hours. So around 700 in classroom, learning what we needed for the field with everything from A&P, Pharm, Cardiology, Respiratory, Assessment skills, etc. Along with ACLS and PALS before we could test for our National Registry. Our new grads that are hired into the ER don't even have ACLS. If you want to talk about scary, it's that. Your working codes without certifications..

Your new grad Paramedics in the ER are not running the codes. Paramedics working in the ER do not run code except for maybe some very tiny ER but then there is a doctor nearby to sign the chart. But, even Paramedics will argue that these weekend certs are pretty meaningless. If you only have 4 years of experience then you probably have no clue about when ACLS actually was a cert to be proud of. Now it is just a card and I would not trust anyone based purely on being a cardholder to be proficient at ACLS. This includes some Paramedics. Then NREMT requires ACLS because they test for 46 states which all may have differing education requirements for Paramedics which can be anywhere from 600 hours of training up to an Associates degree in only one state.

Your right I didn't spend massive amounts of time in one area, that is because we have to be able to handle anything that comes up in the field. But there were two areas that were the majority of our clinicals hours and that was ER and EMS ride alongs. During the EMS ride alongs we had to have so many calls were we where running the calls with the paramedic assisting us and only stepping in if we messed up or something was over our heads at the time.

You might have missed how I had spent clinicals hours in the ICU, or were you too lazy to read that? I live in Oklahoma and we have two major trauma centers. One in Oklahoma City and one in Tulsa. The major hospitals are in OKC and Tulsa. Sometimes you have two to fours hour transfers if you were coming from a small level four hospital that needed to get someone to a level I or level II and medievac was not flying that day to bad weather.

Ok now your starting to tick me off by saying that my transports were EMTALA violations. You think that we are not properly trained. You are DEAD WRONG. We are signed off on everything we do by our medical directors which are the same MD's and DO's that are giving you your orders in the ER. They trust us to use our ASSESSMENT SKILLS and DECISION MAKING to determine what needs to be done on our calls. But I don't want to this to be an EMS vs Nursing battle. I'm just defending my brothers and sisters who you are basically calling stupid monkeys who can barely think for themselves.

And by the way, I WAS NOT BRAGGING about anything. I was stating what kind of calls that paramedics are doing every single day. Also you mention that an RN or RT could ride along. I don't know many hospitals that would spare an RN or RT for a transfer. The only time that I have had an RN or RT with me was during NICU transfers where we went to get the pt from an outlying facility and transported them back to Tulsa.

You are trying to justify that your 500 hours of clinicals were enough. For most prehospital protocols and procedures, it might be. You stated several areas you did clinicals in. Do you not see have little training you got in any area? A few hours here and there does not necessarily make you qualified to critical care transports such as the example you gave. I hope you at least understand why an RN and/or RT should be with you during a NICU transfer. This type of transfer should be done by a qualified NICU team consisting of RN/RN or RN/RT. The same for Pediatrics. This is not about patting your EGO so we don't hurt your feelings but about the safety of the patient. Having a qualified team to transport a patient is what EMTALA is all about. Not whether you and your brothers and sisters get offended. Unless you have been properly educated and trained, you should not be doing high acuity transports. Paramedic programs do not provide that type training in just 1000 hours. This is not an EMS vs nursing issue. You would not see a nurse who works in an Adult ICU hopping on a NICU transport or a med-surg RN trying to tell an ICU RN how to manage their IABPs. They have enough education and training to know their limitations. That might be the message you need to take from this on your next CCT.

Please refrain from calling Paramedics "stupid monkeys". If you are really this naïve about the situation in the US with Paramedic education, you should make some attempt to get more involved with the broader picture for EMS rather than making personal attacks on those who just restate what has been stated many times by those who are trying to change things in EMS to advance it as a profession.

Specializes in Emergency Department.

I don't know TraumaSurfer from Adam... but I do know that when I went into EMS, my previous education made learning to be a Paramedic extremely easy. Sure, my own EMT course was around 140 hours. My Paramedic course was around 1200 hours. That was after I had spent 1500 hours in an athletic training internship along with earning a Bachelors in Sports Medicine. When I'd decided to become an RN, I only truly had to take a microbiology course because I'd taken every other prerequisite needed.

I've been around long enough to have seen ACLS seriously change from being a difficult course to one that feels a lot like a merit badge.

Could I manage a vent dependent patient that has multiple drips that has to emergently be transferred from one hospital to another? Yes. Would it scare the hell out of me? Yes, absolutely it would. I know enough (and then some) to be that scared about it. Could I do it as competently as a well-seasoned ICU nurse? Heck no!

That's coming from someone that's very, very well educated in his own right, and has a very, very good idea about what he doesn't know.

To get things back on track, the EMS system, many here would argue, is quite broken. I say differently. If it was broken, it wouldn't be functional at all. It's completely bent and twisted around, but it does function albeit inefficiently. A whole lot of things would have to be changed to improve the EMS and Interfacilty Transport parts of the system, in terms of efficiency, and not the least of which is the education of entry-level Paramedics.

Specializes in CRNA.

TramaSurfer, my comment on ACLS/PALS was referring to our new grad NURSES that are hired into the ER not PARAMEDICS. Every Paramedic that is hired into our ER already has ACLS/PALS.

Most paramedics that are coming onto the street now are at the college associate degree level. Even thought I graduated from a Tech school for my paramedic I believe I have the same knowledge as them, I just don't have a degree. But I am currently bridging to RN. And let me tell you that the ADVANCED CLASSES for Pharm and A&P that you went on about, I'm currently taking A&P and Pharm, are the same exact materials that I've already covered in my paramedic course.

If there is anyone being HIGH AND MIGHTY that is you. You are saying that paramedics should not be out there because the tech shcools are easy. No they are not, we had a 50% attrition rate (due to grades, if you couldn't handle it you were gone) at our school which is probably higher than any nursing school in the country.

My last comment on this is going to be. The level of training that I got, the number of hours that I spent in clinicals, and the different areas that I spent in clinicals prepared me to be ready from day one when I stepped on the truck. And I don't have just 4 years experience, I will have 6 in July but apparently unless you have 30 years like you everyone else is stupid according to you.

TramaSurfer, my comment on ACLS/PALS was referring to our new grad NURSES that are hired into the ER not PARAMEDICS. Every Paramedic that is hired into our ER already has ACLS/PALS. .

I see you still want a medic vs nurse discussion even though those commenting at you are experienced in EMS.

RNs get what they need to know about codes in their orientation which is a lot longer than the ACLS cert or recert. Nursing also other certs to gain information. An examples are ENPC, TNCC and PNCCT. Hospitals may also do their own inhouse training instead of or in addition to ACLS or PALS. A couple of hospital systems have "ACLS" designed specifically for their facility and patient population. ACLS and PALS do not teach about heart transplants, LVADs or congenital anomalies. RNs participating on Rapid Response and code teams definitely will training and experience which by far exceeds the minimum to get an ACLS card.

Most paramedics that are coming onto the street now are at the college associate degree level. Even thought I graduated from a Tech school for my paramedic I believe I have the same knowledge as them, I just don't have a degree. .

Most? Really? Who are you trying to kid?

The statistics are still at only about 20% and most of those degrees held by current Paramedic license holders are in Fire Science, Nursing or some other health profession. The volunteers may have a degree in accounting, business or some other non-health care degree. The state of Texas has a licensed Paramedic patch for those holding an Associates (which can also includes nursing) and only 50% hold that credential. I would bet some of those are RNs who got the cert for Flight. Even EMS instructors do not need degrees (not even an Associates) at most votechs and they may be exempt at some community colleges which have the cert program rather than the degree.

Fire Departments and Ambulance companies may have their own Paramedic training. Memphis FD and AMR are two big examples. For FFs, the Paramedic cert is just another hoop to getting hiring or extra money in the paycheck although some are very good at EMS for what they are required to do.

Your statement itself is exactly the why many in EMS do argue against raising the education level and most have not wanted to get a degree.

Have you not heard about the recent controversy in EMS where the NREMT is requiring COAEMSP accreditation for Paramedic programs? If you had you would not be making such assumptions and comments which were covered when the many votech schools and EMTs complained. I again will tell you it is important you stay current in what is happening in your profession. EMS is trying to change but will those (like yourself) who say there is no difference between a tech school cert and a college degree, EMS will still be stagnated in the area of education.

But I am currently bridging to RN. And let me tell you that the ADVANCED CLASSES for Pharm and A&P that you went on about, I'm currently taking A&P and Pharm, are the same exact materials that I've already covered in my paramedic course. .

Most bridge programs have advanced their education requirements to include college level A&P and pharmacology prerequisites. You also stated your whole didactic was only 700 hours. Just how much time did you spend on Pharmacology, A&P, pathophysiology and EMS procedures? You contradict yourself or don't realize you might still get more pharmacology in your other classes. You may not realize what your still don't know. The nursing modules build upon each other and you will have more pharmacology in clinicals.

If there is anyone being HIGH AND MIGHTY that is you. You are saying that paramedics should not be out there because the tech shcools are easy. No they are not, we had a 50% attrition rate (due to grades, if you couldn't handle it you were gone) at our school which is probably higher than any nursing school in the country. .

One reason for a large attrition rate in Paramedic schools is the lack of prerequisites. By the time a nursing student gets accepted into a program, they have probably already had a year of college doing the prerequisites. Nursing schools should be selective in their candidates and by the time a student finishes the prerequisites they should have a better idea about college and if they want to continue. It is a very sad statement for your nursing program which has allowed you shortcuts and I will use this in other discussions about raising the standards in nursing education.

Please provide a link to your bridge program. But I think I know which one you are in. Have you actually been accepted in the program? If you are just now starting the prerequisites you still have a long way to go.

This class is an introduction.

NURS 1431 Introduction to Pharmacology and Dosage Calculations

There are still two other classes which you probably have not taken.

NURS 2303 Pharmacology

NURS 2403 Dosage Calculations for Nurses

The other reason is a lack of professional educators in EMS. Most votechs do not require their instructors to have even an Associates degree and they are trying to teach pharmacology and A&P as well as EMS procedures. Yes here I will use the word most since the requirements to be a Paramedic instructor are easily found on your EMS website along with some of the other information I am typing. I suggest you look at your state's EMS website as well as the NREMT to see what is happening in EMS. This does not look good when some in EMS don't stay current but yet try to bash other professions. I am not bashing EMS. I am directing my comments at your responses.

I am very much pro advancement of EMS and increasing the education standard in the US.

I never said Paramedics should not do what they are trained for in prehospital emergency medicine. I did state that Paramedic programs DO NOT prepare them for high acuity CCT. Please refer to the post by alkulahawk.

My last comment on this is going to be. The level of training that I got, the number of hours that I spent in clinicals, and the different areas that I spent in clinicals prepared me to be ready from day one when I stepped on the truck. And I don't have just 4 years experience, I will have 6 in July but apparently unless you have 30 years like you everyone else is stupid according to you.

Your arguments lose validity when you get emotional and start name calling or trying to say others called Paramedic stupid. You are trying to defend your tech cert and have clearly stated there is no difference between a degree and the cert Paramedics in knowledge. I will continue to argue for higher education standards.

I don't believe JenniferG intended to call Paramedics with less than 30 years of experience stupid. Please refer to my reply to her about education, experience and street smarts.

But do you believe someone just out of school is better than your 30+ years of training and experience because they hold a higher certificate?

Okay so you have worked in EMS 4+ years or going on 6. What happened to 5+?

Trust me as a paramedic that has worked in EMS for 4+ years .
Specializes in CRNA.

I'm done arguing with you because we will not change each others minds. I have my beliefs, you have yours and nothing will change that. And if you want a link to my bridge program. Rogers State University

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