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Tweety said:

I've softened my doomsday opinion on tariffs.  When the market crashed after his announcement, I think doomsday opinions weren't just armchair people like myself but investors and economists alike.  

It is Trump himself who has softened his position on tariffs, for the automotive industry for example and cell phones.  Thus Wall Street and others have acted appropriately.  

The billions in revenue is good but I don't don't think it's being put to good use, such as paying down the deficit, but instead it's funding massive increases in ICE and tax cuts for example.  

 

Who paid the billions in tariff revenue for the USA?  It was Americans who paid that, right? 

toomuchbaloney said:

Who paid the billions in tariff revenue for the USA?  It was Americans who paid that, right? 

Specifically, American business. I wonder if that had anything to do with the latest jobs report.

toomuchbaloney said:

Who paid the billions in tariff revenue for the USA?  It was Americans who paid that, right? 

Not sure why you are asking me because nothing in my posts this past year show ignorance about how tariffs work.  

Are you asking because you don't know, or you think I don't know?  But yes, you're right, it was Americans.  Do you have another point to make that you think I'm not getting?

The world and American stock markets have so far taken the tariffs in stride and the gloom and doom from April seems to have subsided along with my mood.  That's all I'm saying at this point along with that Trump has backed down on his initial plan and made some deals and exceptions.
That being said, there is no optimism coming out of me about the immediate future and the negative effects of tariffs. 

The August 2025 jobs report is looming September 5th and I think that expectations are low about that, but the economy is growing.  

I think as companies go through their pre-tariff stocks piles and time goes on prices will rise and we'll get a bigger picture of what the effects are.  Trump stands ready to blame Democrats, liberal courts and a fed that hates America.

heron said:

Specifically, American business. I wonder if that had anything to do with the latest jobs report.

An interesting tangent: at fee.org (Foundation for Economic Education) - The Smoot-Hawley Tarriff and the Great Depression.

The essay discusses the possible effects of the tariff on the creation and severity of the Great Depression. Among other things, it challenges the current academic consensus on the subject. The piece is short enough that I could finish it before my eyes started to bleed.

Tweety said:

Not sure why you are asking me because nothing in my posts this past year show ignorance about how tariffs work.  

Are you asking because you don't know, or you think I don't know?  But yes, you're right, it was Americans.  Do you have another point to make that you think I'm not getting?

The world and American stock markets have so far taken the tariffs in stride and the gloom and doom from April seems to have subsided along with my mood.  That's all I'm saying at this point along with that Trump has backed down on his initial plan and made some deals and exceptions.
That being said, there is no optimism coming out of me about the immediate future and the negative effects of tariffs. 

The August 2025 jobs report is looming September 5th and I think that expectations are low about that, but the economy is growing.  

I think as companies go through their pre-tariff stocks piles and time goes on prices will rise and we'll get a bigger picture of what the effects are.  Trump stands ready to blame Democrats, liberal courts and a fed that hates America.

 

I asked you because you were talking about tariff revenue in the thread.  I thought the source of the revenue was worth discussion. If I had a larger point, it might be the connection between tariff revenue and the cumulative economic effects that we briefly discussed earlier.  

heron said:

Specifically, American business. I wonder if that had anything to do with the latest jobs report.

I believe your thinking is correct.  Others here are implying it's always the consumer that pays.

The Republicans cry the same when the subject is taxes.

What they're missing is that businesses already charge the most they can for a product to make the maximum profit.  If they could charge more to sell the same amount of product, they already would be.  With increased tariffs or taxes, they either have to pass on the extra costs and raise the prices which lessens demand.  Or, eat the costs themselves.  Or some combination thereof. 

Either way, they're paying more in taxes/tariffs and profits are being cut into.

Liberals should rejoice.  

I'm not an economist and have not run across (nor have I searched) anything to back up my opinion.  It just seems like common sense.

Here's a related article about how the consumer isn't paying.  At least for now.

https://www.npr.org/2025/07/29/nx-s1-5477470/prices-trump-tariffs

Beerman said:

I believe your thinking is correct.  Others here are implying it's always the consumer that pays.

The Republicans cry the same when the subject is taxes.

What they're missing is that businesses already charge the most they can for a product to make the maximum profit.  If they could charge more to sell the same amount of product, they already would be.  With increased tariffs or taxes, they either have to pass on the extra costs and raise the prices which lessens demand.  Or, eat the costs themselves.  Or some combination thereof. 

Either way, they're paying more in taxes/tariffs and profits are being cut into.

Liberals should rejoice.  

I'm not an economist and have not run across (nor have I searched) anything to back up my opinion.  It just seems like common sense.

Here's a related article about how the consumer isn't paying.  At least for now.

https://www.npr.org/2025/07/29/nx-s1-5477470/prices-trump-tariffs

 

Why would liberals rejoice? You've been reading too much libertarian propaganda, I think.

This whole discussion reminds me of the early arguments over the environment and climate change. Us tree-huggers predicted disasterous change while a congressional idiot waved a snowball in the air to "prove" nothing was happening. Chicken Little vs. the ostrich. Both sides were wrong.

heron said:

Why would liberals rejoice! You've been reading too much libertarian propaganda, I think.

Maybe so.  I thought big business made too much profit and didn't pay enough to distribute to the middle class and poor?

I think the Fortune 500 companies enjoying robust profits are better poised to eat the tariffs for now.

While not gloom and doom all signs are pointing towards the consumer in the end.  May or may not happen, but time will tell.  It will remain to be seen if the some of public who largely voted against Harris because of her association with Biden era inflation will feel about it and how forgiving of Trump they will be.  

Quote

How much will U.S. consumers have to pay in tariffs? CNBC reports, "CEO of the E-Merchants Trade Council, which represents e-sellers and companies that support e-commerce, (said) the total increase in cost to be paid by small and medium-sized businesses may reach over $71 billion.” Small and medium-sized businesses are less able to eat some of those increased costs, as some large retailers have. Eventually, you, the consumer, will pay the price. 

https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/5480607-tariffs-inflation-trump-votes/

Tweety said:

I think the Fortune 500 companies enjoying robust profits are better poised to eat the tariffs for now.

While not gloom and doom all signs are pointing towards the consumer in the end.  May or may not happen, but time will tell.  It will remain to be seen if the some of public who largely voted against Harris because of her association with Biden era inflation will feel about it and how forgiving of Trump they will be.  

 

https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/5480607-tariffs-inflation-trump-votes/

I agree about the greater resiliency of the larger companies.  

@heron the concerns about the lessons of Smoot-Hawley are relevant.  

Trump's clumsy foreign policy has pushed India to form an alliance with China. 

https://contrarian.substack.com?utm_source=navbar&utm_medium=web

He insulted Modi by claiming to end the conflict with Pakistan, and upset trade with on-again, off-again tariffs. China and Russia are taking full advantage. 

Trump must have the sads over Xi's opulent military parade compared to the sad, squeaky tank we saw in June, rolling through Washington, DC. 

https://www.cnn.com/2025/09/05/politics/north-korea-navy-seal-mission-nyt

Who knew that Trump had a Navy SEAL mission is NK that resulted in civilian deaths in 2019? Can we talk about this while we consider what team Trump is telling us about the Venezuelans that we're killed in a boat?