Professional Nurse: BSN VS ADN... need help... - page 4
Hi, I am working on an assignment for school. I am in my last semester of an ADN program. The assignment is to think about my definition of what a Professional Nurse is and how the current... Read More
Nov 9, '08Quote from hotmama2beIf that were the case, then maybe MDs, PTs, OTs, Pharmacists, etc, who ALL out earn us by a significant amount, would not bother to attain their degree. Would they? Do you really want a physician to cut the amount of education that they have? Would they be considered less professional if they only had Bachelors degrees, or Associates degrees. Or just a Diploma, like some nurses still have? Or just OJT?Professionalism is a state of mind not a state of education.
The public would not stand for teachers, doctors, etc, to cut their education level. The don't care if they have to pay more property taxes to pay for kindergarten teachers who have Masters Degrees. Why doesn't the public care? Because these professions have made it their business to inform and educate the public that their children will not receive a good education if they do not have graduate degrees.
Nurses, on the other hand, do nothing but make excuse after excuse to denigrate and devalue higher education for nurses. Is it any wonder that the public does is not concerned that the nurse who is caring for their child in a peds or neonatal ICU only a two year post HS education. Or only one year if it is a peds floor and the nurses is an LPN with only one year of post HS education?
Professionalism is more than a state of mind. It is a state of knowing that one is the best because they have taken the time to get an education. I am sure that years ago, HS dropouts would tell HS graduates that education is only a state of mind. Now we know better. At least, I thougth we did. When it comes to nurses, some times I wonder. JMHO and my NY $0.02.
Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN
Nov 9, '08While I disagree with this:
Quote from hotmama2bebecause being a professional certainly does require education, I also think there is a significant difference between this:Professionalism is a state of mind not a state of education.
Quote from lindarnand pointing out the professionalism of all RNs. Saying that RNs are professionals, despite their point of entry, is not denigrating and devaluing higher education.Nurses, on the other hand, do nothing but make excuse after excuse to denigrate and devalue higher education for nurses. Is it any wonder that the public does is not concerned that the nurse who is caring for their child in a peds or neonatal ICU only a two year post HS education. Or only one year if it is a peds floor and the nurses is an LPN with only one year of post HS education?
Let's talk about those physical therapists. When PTs increased their education requirement did they insult those PTs who "only" had a bachelor's degree? I didn't see it. I also didn't see any bogus, shameful studies (i.e. Aiken) lambasting their colleagues. No, it's only nursing that insults have the members of our profession.
I value education. In fact, after this semester I have one more class to complete my BSN. I'm glad I did it, but let's face it, nothing magical has happened. I won't graduate in May and suddenly become a professional. I already am.
Nov 10, '08Well I know alot of higher education nurses who are EXTREMELY unprofessional , just because you have a 4,6 and 8 year degree doesn't make you a professional. Professionalism is how you carry yourself and effectively do your job. I could meet someone off the street and tell if they are a professional not by there educational level but how they speak carry oneself. Being a professional is not acquired by education , its acquired in experience and self confidence of ones abilities with there chosen professional. And there effectiveness in the workplace and receiving recognition from there peers of ones accomplishments.
Nov 11, '08Quote from hotmama2beThen there's definition of "professional" or "profession" that states a profession is one that sets it's own standards, has a minimum of a Bachelor's degree, has an organization run by them, blah blah blah.........what you are describing is behavior.Well I know alot of higher education nurses who are EXTREMELY unprofessional , just because you have a 4,6 and 8 year degree doesn't make you a professional. Professionalism is how you carry yourself and effectively do your job. I could meet someone off the street and tell if they are a professional not by there educational level but how they speak carry oneself. Being a professional is not acquired by education , its acquired in experience and self confidence of ones abilities with there chosen professional. And there effectiveness in the workplace and receiving recognition from there peers of ones accomplishments.
Nov 12, '08Quote from hotmama2beI hear you.i'm done
Note that I was merely talking semantics and don't buy into the idea that by definition only BSNs are "professional nurses", or that nursing doesn't fit the strict definition of a profession because there are ADNs and LPNs.
May 11, '12People have created this stigma with LPN verses ADN verses BSN, with one being better than the other, blah, blah, blah. It is sad. What is the diference?
Not much, I can say. We are all "Nursing". We all have the same end goal in mind: alturistic care of another human being in need. Is it because an AD Nurse feels inferior to a BS Nurse? Or is it because a BSN is more officially "educated" than an ADN? Whatever the case may be, it does not matter. Just do what you love, and the rest will fall into place. Stop worrying about one's educational status.
In short, however, a BSN focuses on the "why". An ADN focuses on the "how". And an LPN focuses on the "how to". Does that mean that an LPN or ADN does not know "why"? Or even a CNA, for that matter....NO!
I started out as a CNA, then went to LPN school, then got an Associate's degree, then a Bachelor's Degree in Nursing. All four are crucial to the well-being of people who need them; and one cannot function well without the other. If you are confident in the care you give, the extra letters behind the name on your badge will not matter......Just sayin!!!!!
May 20, '12Quote from weirdRNAm willing to bet the "old article" you found was some how linked to the ANA white paper put out over 50 years ago advocating the BSN as minimum standard for entry into the practice.Hi,
I am working on an assignment for school. I am in my last semester of an ADN program.
The assignment is to think about my definition of what a Professional Nurse is and how the current nursing image is impacting it.
I was wondering what everyone thought of BSN and ADN educations. The reason I ask is that I found an ancient article on professional nursing that stated that an ADN is a technical Nurse and the BSN is the professional Nurse. I thought, what does it matter? both are held to the same standards of practice, the same workload, responsibilities ect. How can one be professional and one just be technical?
I would appreciate any thoughts on this as it will enhance my response assignment.
I do not understand how the two are different, except that the BSN has more stuff for community based nursing in it and the ADN is focused mostly on Hospital based nursing.
Under that scheme the four year degree nurse would be a "professional" nurse with graduates from two and three year programs (diploma and ADN/AAS) called "technical" nurses. The idea went along the lines that the BSN nurse would assess, develop plans of care, evaluate and all the other administrative/managerial parts of nursing, whilst the ADN/diploma grads along with UAPs did all the actual patient care.
Being as all this may most all associate degrees are considered technical in nature. While there are subtle differences between an Associates degree vs an Associates in Applied Science, both allow a greater concentration on a subject/trade/career, etc... than say merely taking only two years of a four year program. Of the two applied science degrees are more technical in that many states allow greater focus on the major at the expense of general education credits. OTOH associate degrees such as the ADN are meant to prepare one for a career while also laying the foundation for one to go on and complete a BS or BA. This can be done by either compact agreements and or simply designing course content so the credits will easily transfer.
Nursing has been considered a profession since the days when diploma grads were the only game in town. During WWII the US military took the step of giving RNs commissioned officer rank, something normally reserved for college graduates. So it seems rather odd to my ears at least to hear only BSN nurses are "professional". Indeed if one examines lists of professions nursing is right up there with teaching, law and medicine.
It is also not helpful to compare BSN degrees from other countries to the USA. Nurses in France for instance are required to have a BSN degree, but their training is far more didactic than most American four year nursing programs. In many such programs nursing students spend far more time at the bedside than say again your average BSN student here. Time spent on clinicals of course means one cannot take classes (nursing or general education) elsewhere, so something has to give.
Have often said it really is a shame at times the nursing profession is run by a pack of women. No other profession has argued amoung itself for so long and or otherwise get's themselves hung-up on when it comes down to it what amounts to petty details. Be it stripes on caps, what type or sort of uniform or whatever, nurses seem to spend so much time squabbling amoung themselves. Meanwhile the other healthcare "professions" including UAPs are eating nurse's lunch. The profession seems to be moving in two directions: nurses who want to be quasi physicans and think bedside care is grunt work, and those deemed by whomever to be those doing the heavy lifting but get darn little credit for their efforts.
It is astounding that these sort of debate has been going on for over *FIFTY* years and still isn't sorted out. Meanwhile back on the ranch hospitals and other facilities along with state governments have grown weary of the nursing profession to act with one voice, and are taking matters into their own hands.
May 22, '12Quote from SuesquatchRNYou just said what I wanted to say. I don't have any BSN programs where I live, I'm gonna have to go to a community college... it doesn't mean I don't want education. I do. I just can't afford it and can't really move now so I can go to a 4 year program; and I think it's relevant to the conversation because I think a lot of people are in our shoes. It doesn't mean we don't care about education or we wouldn't make good nurses.That's an unsupportable assertion. Just for starters, I don't have a four year institution within a reasonable distance to my home, and at 52 my husband would be quite perturbed if I told him I was off to live in the dorms. Not to mention the teeny boppers who would just die at having, you know, gramma living there.
As it stands now, an ADN and passing the NCLEX are what are required for entry into nursing. Statements about ADNs hurting the image of the profession are divisive and a slap in the face to your hard-working and well-educated brothers and sisters.
Change the law if you sincerely believe what you are saying - and I have no reason to doubt that you do - but please refrain from treating your peers so disrespectfully.