psych nurses....Please HELP!!?

Specialties Psychiatric

Published

as some of you may already know i work on an adolescent unit in a psych hospital. as with any job in psych it can get very frustrating... not to mention depressing. well the staff and i are dealing with a big problem right now. we have a male patient who has been diagnosed with schizophrenia. he's 15. he has been seen by several psychiatrists, who all agree that he needs to be treated rather aggressively (medication). he can be assaultive, although he keeps to himself most of the time. he has to be watched like a hawk, because he likes to sneak in the shower room and annoy the other male patients, and he'll walk up and poke at his peers, which evokes a fight about 75% of the time. he has strange repetitive rituals, he will not touch door handles, or the drinking fountain... he refuses to take oral medications, because he is convinced that he's not mentally ill, and he doesn't need them, and that the meds. will cause terrible side effects. he demands ativan rather than cogentin for the "shaking" he experiences, despite the fact that i have read through the side effects of ativan with him, and told him that for the problem he's having, ativan isn't going to help as well as the cogentin. he refuses to bathe, and the other boys complain about it, so he has to be assisted, and usually the staff ends up as wet as him. he was on a schedule of prolixin dec. injections q 2 weeks which was the only way that he was actually getting any medication on a regular basis. (he would flat out refuse, or cheek the p.o. meds)

it is so sad to watch a boy drift away like this. you can see it in his eyes.

here's our problem. his mother refuses to believe that there's anything wrong with him. she is angry with everything that we have done, nothing seems good enough. she was angry that he was getting the prolixin dec. and i believe she told him he didn't need it. we can't do anything without a fight. we are treating her, as much as him.

don't get me wrong, i know if he were my son, i may be in denial...but i truly feel that we are doing a dis service to him by not treating him as prescribed. i wish for once she would let her guard down, and listen when we try to tell her that we are all on the same side, we all want what's best for him.... to get better.

any advice as to how to handle this situation??? any words of wisdom or ideas would be appreciated. thanks!:confused:

If he's court-ordered to receive treatment, he can't be discharged AMA. If the mother is thwarting treatment, her visitation can be limited or stopped in the best interests of the patient. The MDs can also write orders that she is not to bring food into the facility--this is a privilege and not a right--or can limit how much she is allowed to bring. Mom obviously has her own pscyh issues, but I doubt it's Munchausen's by Proxy (if it were, she'd most likely be all for hospitalization and would be seeking attention and approval from the staff rather than being in denial). Sounds like this poor kid is being used in the battle between mom and dad. Maybe dad needs to try to get full custody of him.

We had a boy once who was paranoid schizophrenic--with wonderful, supportive parents--and finally had to get a court order to treat him against his will. He started out resisting, but eventually got much better and was able to go home. I hope things change soon for your patient!

luci

It's funny that you said that she would most likely be pushing hospitalization, she has bullied her way into having him elsewhere currently. He is in another acute care hosp. as I write this. On the psych unit of coorifice, as he is physically healthy. And as for approval from staff, she has all her co-workers that she gets approval from, who also work in the ER with her. She doesn't want our approval, because according to her, we are clueless. So, in a way she does qualify. I don't know... I just know it's nice not having her call me every night, and taking the verbal abuse on a daily basis from her. I don't need that, and neither does the rest of the staff, we are there to help these patients, and sometimes I feel like we just get kicked in the teeth.

It makes me wonder if she has history of mental illness in her family history and this is her way of denying that he has anything wrong with him. If she has a history of this in her past family history, she is scared of being blamed for him having it.

Yes,... she of coorifice blames everything on her ex husband though. I admit he's really concrete in his thinking, and doesn't appear to be overly bright, but he does not have a mental illness, that has ever been diagnosed. She has told people that he has schizophrenia..... isn't that almost laughable.

It sounds to me like both parties in this situation are at an impasse and at the root of it seems to be each party's implicit 'model' of mental distress.

The staff see this boy as clearly suffering from schizophrenia - a disorder that they believe is genetic in origin, related to abnormalities in his brain and which will respond to treatment with anti-psychotics. They see the purpose of the psych unit as providing that treatment for this boy. They are unable to see the mother's side in this and view her as obstructive, in denial, possibly mentally ill herself - all of which militates against collaborative working.

The mother, it would appear, believes that there may be another cause for her son's distress, and rejects the bio-medical explanation of schizophrenia. This is understandable - who would want to see their child receive a diagnostic label as loaded and stigmatizing as schizophrenia? She possibly sees the psych unit as a place where her son is unjustly detained and sees it's staff as clueless, unhelpful, oppressive and acts accordingly. This, too, militates against any notion of collaborative working.

So, you have two sides locked in battle, with no apparent hope of rapprochement. What it seems to me is needed is a third party, an impartial person who would be able to speak to both sides in this situation, who wouldn't necessarily be committed to any implicit model, who could speak for either party to the other.

The staff certainly do not have to endure her verbal abuse over the phone or in person - this is unacceptable. However, I do wonder whether this woman feels she has no ally in this situation, feels somewhat cornered and isolated and thus lashes out as a result. Having someone she perceives as independent to talk to might help. Over here in the UK, an advocacy service might help out - do you have anything equivalent in the States? We also have groups and voluntary organisations for family members, informal caregivers and so on, who also might be able to help - again, is there an equivalent over there?

What is needed is mediation.

It sounds to me like both parties in this situation are at an impasse and at the root of it seems to be each party's implicit 'model' of mental distress.

The staff see this boy as clearly suffering from schizophrenia - a disorder that they believe is genetic in origin, related to abnormalities in his brain and which will respond to treatment with anti-psychotics. They see the purpose of the psych unit as providing that treatment for this boy. They are unable to see the mother's side in this and view her as obstructive, in denial, possibly mentally ill herself - all of which militates against collaborative working.

The mother, it would appear, believes that there may be another cause for her son's distress, and rejects the bio-medical explanation of schizophrenia. This is understandable - who would want to see their child receive a diagnostic label as loaded and stigmatizing as schizophrenia? She possibly sees the psych unit as a place where her son is unjustly detained and sees it's staff as clueless, unhelpful, oppressive and acts accordingly. This, too, militates against any notion of collaborative working.

So, you have two sides locked in battle, with no apparent hope of rapprochement. What it seems to me is needed is a third party, an impartial person who would be able to speak to both sides in this situation, who wouldn't necessarily be committed to any implicit model, who could speak for either party to the other.

The staff certainly do not have to endure her verbal abuse over the phone or in person - this is unacceptable. However, I do wonder whether this woman feels she has no ally in this situation, feels somewhat cornered and isolated and thus lashes out as a result. Having someone she perceives as independent to talk to might help. Over here in the UK, an advocacy service might help out - do you have anything equivalent in the States? We also have groups and voluntary organisations for family members, informal caregivers and so on, who also might be able to help - again, is there an equivalent over there?

What is needed is mediation.

We do have an advocacy for patients and families, and refuses to talk to them, accusing them of siding with us. I know that this woman feels trapped, and possibly hopeless. This is a very heavy diagnosis, and she can see her son deteriorating, I really wish, someone could sit down and talk to her rationally about the situation, however it appears that she only sees him as "normal" and THAT to her, IS rational. Anyone or anything that deviates from that, is not. As much as she has torn me apart, I really do feel compassion for this woman, and I know that I would struggle if put in the same circumstance. Is it possible that all she has ever dealt with is illness/injury that is tangible, obvious to the naked eyes, and something that she could "fix" in a matter of speaking? This illness, one she cannot measure the magnitude of with lab tests, or X-rays is just too foreign to her that she rejects it?????

Hmmmmm.

We do have an advocacy for patients and families, and refuses to talk to them, accusing them of siding with us. I know that this woman feels trapped, and possibly hopeless. This is a very heavy diagnosis, and she can see her son deteriorating, I really wish, someone could sit down and talk to her rationally about the situation, however it appears that she only sees him as "normal" and THAT to her, IS rational. Anyone or anything that deviates from that, is not. As much as she has torn me apart, I really do feel compassion for this woman, and I know that I would struggle if put in the same circumstance. Is it possible that all she has ever dealt with is illness/injury that is tangible, obvious to the naked eyes, and something that she could "fix" in a matter of speaking? This illness, one she cannot measure the magnitude of with lab tests, or X-rays is just too foreign to her that she rejects it?????

Hmmmmm.

Specializes in Hospice, corrections, psychiatry, rehab, LTC.

One of the crosses we bear in mental health is a comparison to other medical specialties, in which the problems are more visible and obvious, and the solutions faster. Pain medications work in 30 minutes to an hour. Antidepressants take 7-10 days to show any progress, and 4-6 weeks for full therapeutic effect. Also, it is much easier to know what to do after a surgery than it is to determine a treatment for the broken mind.

Mental health is as much art as science. Therapies take longer to help, and the wait is frustrating, especially if the first (or second, or third) regimen is ineffective. The medications we give can also have some heavy side effects. It is for these reasons that compliance after inpatient treatment is such a problem, and why there are so many relapses.

If I had a neatly-canned solution to this, I could sell it for millions and never work again.

Specializes in Hospice, corrections, psychiatry, rehab, LTC.

One of the crosses we bear in mental health is a comparison to other medical specialties, in which the problems are more visible and obvious, and the solutions faster. Pain medications work in 30 minutes to an hour. Antidepressants take 7-10 days to show any progress, and 4-6 weeks for full therapeutic effect. Also, it is much easier to know what to do after a surgery than it is to determine a treatment for the broken mind.

Mental health is as much art as science. Therapies take longer to help, and the wait is frustrating, especially if the first (or second, or third) regimen is ineffective. The medications we give can also have some heavy side effects. It is for these reasons that compliance after inpatient treatment is such a problem, and why there are so many relapses.

If I had a neatly-canned solution to this, I could sell it for millions and never work again.

Hello Everyone,

Sorry to come back to this so late, but a few things occur to me. Firstly, is there a possibility of the clinical team noting the specifics of his delusional content in order to ask mom if this is a reasonable supposition? giving her the oppportunity to gain insight ... secondly a good line is to ask mom how she (in the context of the psych ward) would like to participate in his care and what she would like to see done to aid her son. By engaging her you may gain some trust and then be able to offer opinions that are'nt rejected out of hand.... of course it may have gone to far for this now...

Now of course I am unfamiliar with the US system of treatment and the legality of such, but in this scenario here in Australia, or in the UK it is likely a depot medication would be prescibed and given against the patients & families wishes.... in Australia he would likely be discharged (eventually) on a CTO (community treament order) which ensures any non-compliance re: treatment results in imediate re-admission, and enforced treatment.

At the end of the day, the client is the priority, if his mother is demonstratabley interfering with his treatment, it should'nt be to hard to remove her form the scene until he is better?... (clueless re: US legal issue) having said that, most psychiatrists I've met are reluctant to alienate the family of a client... even to the point of allowing a patient to suffer, rather than confront the family.

sympathetically StuPer

Hello Everyone,

Sorry to come back to this so late, but a few things occur to me. Firstly, is there a possibility of the clinical team noting the specifics of his delusional content in order to ask mom if this is a reasonable supposition? giving her the oppportunity to gain insight ... secondly a good line is to ask mom how she (in the context of the psych ward) would like to participate in his care and what she would like to see done to aid her son. By engaging her you may gain some trust and then be able to offer opinions that are'nt rejected out of hand.... of course it may have gone to far for this now...

Now of course I am unfamiliar with the US system of treatment and the legality of such, but in this scenario here in Australia, or in the UK it is likely a depot medication would be prescibed and given against the patients & families wishes.... in Australia he would likely be discharged (eventually) on a CTO (community treament order) which ensures any non-compliance re: treatment results in imediate re-admission, and enforced treatment.

At the end of the day, the client is the priority, if his mother is demonstratabley interfering with his treatment, it should'nt be to hard to remove her form the scene until he is better?... (clueless re: US legal issue) having said that, most psychiatrists I've met are reluctant to alienate the family of a client... even to the point of allowing a patient to suffer, rather than confront the family.

sympathetically StuPer

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