do u sit down when scrubbed?

carcha · Oct 10, 2003

Stevierae, u mean to say u still wear masks?, only kidding. However I must say the question of sterility was not an issue with me as someone has already pointed out your back is not sterile, below your waist is considered a no no. My reasons for not giving my colleague the stool in the first place are

How do you keep a proper check of the instruments and sponges if your sitting, in effect, behind a team who are standing.

How do you keep pace with the procedure if you cant see it?

Why become a scrub nurse if at such a young age standing for any period of time is a problem for you.?

I feel and this is a personal rather then professional opinion, that my colleague has chosen the wrong area to work in, and considers that the role of a scrub nurse is to lay up a trolley and then sit back (literally!), and just wait to be asked for whatever.

stevierae · Oct 11, 2003

Originally posted by carcha
Stevierae, u mean to say u still wear masks?, only kidding. However I must say the question of sterility was not an issue with me as someone has already pointed out your back is not sterile, below your waist is considered a no no. My reasons for not giving my colleague the stool in the first place are
How do you keep a proper check of the instruments and sponges if your sitting, in effect, behind a team who are standing.
How do you keep pace with the procedure if you cant see it?
Why become a scrub nurse if at such a young age standing for any period of time is a problem for you.?
I feel and this is a personal rather then professional opinion, that my colleague has chosen the wrong area to work in, and considers that the role of a scrub nurse is to lay up a trolley and then sit back (literally!), and just wait to be asked for whatever.

Heck, sometimes you cannot see what's going on anyway, especially if you work in a teaching institution where there are 3 or 4 or more residents scrubbed in, and you are way back at the patient's feet. Remember this, too: some of the scrubs really resent US (as circulators) sitting down, and they wonder why we have to do so, for any reason--they think we should remain standing, which is ludicrous. Again, I think it makes no difference whatsoever, as long as you are up at the field and are familiar with the procedure. Also--if people would limit the amount of instruments they have up on their mayo stands, as I was taught to do, (I swear, some scrubs have their entire back tables up on their mayo stands at any given time, and they never take them off the field even if they are no longer in use) they would have no trouble keeping track of their instruments.

shodobe · Oct 11, 2003

stevierae, nice to hear some sensible reasoning. I totally agree with you, too many scrubs are too anal about their back table. The only thing missing from the table is the candelabra. Too dark age for me. There are alot of cases we do that really require gloves, for you own protection. I think too many nurses have the opinion the OR is like the "clean rooms" at Intel! I am not an expert in this, but I think you will find most post-op infections are caused by poor care on the floors. This is not to say the nurses are totally to blame but I can guarantee my patients get the cleanest dressing there is. Also, you are right to say that some scrubs put way to much up on their mayo. I put up the fewest I can get away with. If it was my choice, the surgeon would get a knife, kelly and a pickup to start. Add as you go along. The back table was invented to hold all of your extra instruments but if they are all up on your mayo, get rid of the table! By the end of the procedure I usually have two adson forceps, couple of kellys to finish up the case. Everything else has migrated back to the table. As I have always said before, I will sit down whenever I can and this has nothing to do with my age. I can outwork, outscrub and outcirculate anyone in my department, period! Only the young ones tend to whine. Anyway I will stop ranting. Mike

stevierae · Oct 11, 2003

Everything Mike said! I'm tellin' ya, I think he and I were separated at birth.

Carcha, I would be reaaaalllly careful about complaining about that scrub. Choose your battles carefully. Next thing you know, there will be a rule that says the circulator is not allowed to sit down, PERIOD--and guess who will have gone to administration and complained about YOU and making you sound lazy? You got it--the scrub and her buddies.

Just have fun at work. Don't stress the small stuff--and it truly IS all small stuff. What do YOU care if this young scrub, in your opinion, has chosen the wrong field? If she has, she will know soon enough, and go on to bigger and better things. She willl likely modify her techniques, anyway, as she gets more experienced and sees how other folks do things. Also, why take it upon yourself to be her babysitter? If anyone has any complaints about her sitting, it will be the surgeon--let him be the bad guy. It sounds to me like nobody (surgeon wise) has even noticed or cared.

stevierae · Oct 11, 2003

Originally posted by BarbPick
OK, lemme give this a try.....If this is a Nurse scrub, she is in violation of the state nurse practice act. If your are the RN Circulator, if you allow it, you are in violation of the state nurse practice act. I took the Medical Legal Consultant Course, have practiced on the side and am ready to take the certification exam (yay)!

Barbara

Uh----whaaat?

I, too, practice legal nurse consulting, Barb, as well as operating room nursing, but I have never heard that sitting while scrubbed (as an RN) or allowing the scrub to sit (as the RN circulator) is in violation of ANY states' nurse practice act.

In fact, I am currently working on a case in Florida, and had to acquaint myself with Florida nursing law--I even took an 8 hour CE course in Florida nursing law. I don't remember ANY language addressing that issue.

Please show us the language that you are referring to.

Also, please remember that Carcha is not in the United States--although AORN guidelines would still apply--remember, however, that those are GUIDELINES and RECOMMENDATIONS--NOT commandments carved in stone!

carcha · Oct 11, 2003

ok, I see your point, however your missing mine. I truly believe we all have a duty to help less experienced staff to practice in the best possible manner. To the writer who sits whenever he can, and is wonderful, how experienced are u?. I would guess very. I'm talking about a very very inexperienced nurse. She has to keep abreast of the procedure to understand it and also to be a part of the team at the table. I dont care who sits down for "sitting cases", hands, eyes ect. I dont care if any of the circulators sit down as long as they have their eyes on the ball and are not reading todays newspaper while the bloody sponges are mounting up at my feet. HOWEVER, a young inexperienced, nurse should be on her feet, during a laparotomy to moniter the procedure and be abreast of the situation, or else why not get someone in off the street and push a trolley in front of them , a stool behind them and let them get on with it.

Ferret · Jan 30, 2004

Hi All,

I really don't think anything it wrong with Scrubs sitting, or Circulators reading, as long as they are listening to the operation and paying attention. Hell, as a scout(circulating) nurse over the last 4 years I've been known to doze off during liver transplants, 23.5 hour cases can do that to you.... No one has ever had a problem, as long as you wake up when the scrub needs you, all the paperwork is done and the OR is as tidy as possible.

Now that I'm scrubbing, I'm really interested in the case, and do stand, but as my familiarity with the cases grows, I'll sit when it is appropriate. Just use your "clinical judgement", as my uni lecturers used to say, and take each situation as it comes. My views on the sterility issue has aready been addresssed, only the front is terile, and all the sitting nurses I've seen use a high stool and leave their hands on the table.

All that aside, are some of you saying that the CIRCULATING nurse is the senior nuse in the OR? As an Enrolled Nurse (I think that's equivalent to a PRN) I've not been permitted to scrub for the last 4 years, it is only now that I've registered that I'm being taught to scrub, and loving every minute of it. Our Scrubs are definitely in charge over here, though.