The Circumcision Discussion - page 35
I know this can be a HUGE debate, and I'm not looking to start any arguments. I was just wondering as you are OB nurses. I'm expecting a boy in July and not sure if we should circ. or not. My... Read More
Mar 8, '07Quote from TazziRNAgreeing with Tazzi. I have a son and he is circumcised, so is my husband and all 3 of my brothers. I am currently pregnant, and if this is a boy he will be too.I am pro-circ, but I respect the decision of others to opt out. It is not fair to say that those who opt out are ignorant and uninformed, because they could be saying the same about us. There are beliefs on both sides of the argument, and just because someone doesn't agree with your views, it doesn't make that person's belief wrong.
I have met 3 adult men who were not circed as infants and later became circed as adults. All 3 of them regret that their parents didn't do this sooner. They claim that sex feels better and they don't have a wierd odor downstairs anymore. Also all 3 claim that it is cleaner to take care of a circed penis. Just food for thought.
Mar 8, '07At the risk of divulging TMI, soap and water are all that's necessary to keep DH's and DS's stuff clean. No smell. Either way you have to wash it, and well.
Mar 8, '07Quote from Arwen_UI've had 3 boys and they ALL were interested in how daddy looked . . . during potty training, it was a fascinating subject for them.The first generation of non-Jewish circed boys here in the US didn't look like their intact fathers and all the medical folks reassured everyone there would be no problem, nobody would feel funny. Now "looking like Daddy" is the very argument many people are using to justify circing boys now. Sometimes I wonder if it is not so much that kids will care what their dads look like but that dads will feel funny looking different than their kids. I'm not a man, so I don't know, and my DH and son are the same (intact). I just wonder sometimes.
On a semi-related topic, as a woman, I don't know and don't care to know what my mom's stuff looks like. I don't think boys truly care what their dad's penises look like either. JMHO.
I was the one against circ'ing them . . . remember that. It was the men who wanted it done and they older boys who are now adults are glad.
I still think it wouldn't have been a big deal . . but I'm not a boy.
And the dads didn't want their boys circ'd so the dads could feel better about how they look.
Mar 8, '07Quote from Arwen_UThis was one of my arguments . . . . why not cut off their ears then? They are hard to clean.At the risk of divulging TMI, soap and water are all that's necessary to keep DH's and DS's stuff clean. No smell. Either way you have to wash it, and well.
Didn't work . . . .
Mar 8, '07I should have thought of you when writing those last posts, Steph. :spin: I stand corrected.
Mar 8, '07Quote from Arwen_UI should have thought of you when writing those last posts, Steph. :spin: I stand corrected.
It is funny that both the men I married were stubborn about this and one is 6 years older than the other. The older one is a farm boy, very conservative, never did illegal drugs. The other (my ex) is younger, very liberal and wild and did every imaginable illegal drug under the sun . . and a few legal ones. Two more diverse men you would never find - and yet they both wanted their boys circ'd.
Mar 8, '07When I had my boys - i refused circ on both of them - originally my husband disagreed - but while attending my own little guy in the NICU (aspiration pneumonia at birth) inadvertently witnessed several circs. The hospital policy, we were told, was to use EMLA cream, and inject local all arround site, as well as using Sweet-eze - - none of this was done except for the Sweet-eze - AFTER the procedure - infant circumcision for tradition or "prevention" is totally barbaric - and should be discontinued. At the current hospital where I just finished my OB rotation - Circumcision is not routinely done. Thank heaven!!
On a side note - we did have to have the boys done as they got older, due to a stricture of the foreskin that developed - this occured at the same age in both of them! - found out later that this was a genetic tendency effecting my husband's family (you'd think they would say something) but this was done under general anesthetic, with an oral dose of an amnesiotic prior to going into the OR. They went home with bith topical and oral pain meds - For a medical condition, great!! but on new-borns?? I really question the practice.
Mar 8, '07That is my concern exactly. If it's for a medical condition, fine, but just because?? I can even respect religious faith to a point, but even so, many religions that traditionally circ are moving away from it. (Yay!)
I have already said that if DS comes to me at 18 and says he doesn't like his thing and wants a circ, fine. He's a consenting adult and can make his choice. I'll make the appt. But not while he's a baby. Life is hard enough as a newborn w/o a weenie-whackin'.
Steph, your story is quite interesting.
Mar 8, '07I'm in the "don't circumcised" camp. I have an uncircumcised husband (10 yrs with him) and have been with two others with foreskins, all the rest were circ'ed. I prefer uncircumcised sexually and aesthetically.
No hygiene issues here, frankly, his armpits and feet can work up a much more impressive stink. I've never gotten the "smegma" thing - I've never seen any. Neither have I gotten the "locker room" issue. My stepson (16) and son (3) are uncircumcised as well (also the rest of my husband's family - brothers, cousins, grandpa, uncles) and no one has ever had a complaint or problem.
I am also a postpartum nurse and yes, babies cry. Yes, they cry being strapped down and yes, because of the cold air, but clearly, when the doc makes a cut their eyes widen and they give a different kind of cry. I see it time and time again, even with lidocaine, even with Sweet-Ease. And yet, parents still chose it, even witness it. I don't understand the drive to circumcise, why mothers chose to do it beyond all reason. I've even had mothers ask for it for premies, who are still fighting to breathe in the NICU - when is his circumcision?
When I read these threads, I am embarrassed to be an American and yearn to move somewhere else. The comments about a man's natural body being ugly or dirty really blow my mind. When we hear African mothers talking about no man will marry her daughter unless she is circumcised, how "ugly" her labia and clitoris is, how she will be shunned and humiliated if she doesn't have the surgery - we cringe in horror at her ignorance. We do this because we HAVE our own natural genitals, we know how they work, and we know they are just fine the way they are. And we know the surgery is barbaric, traumatizing and unnecessary. But men don't get the same treatment and I don't know why.
Quote from 2bnurseofalltradesI give kudos to any male who has been circumcised. I witnessed my very first circumcision this morning. I never gave much thought to the whole procedure until I actually saw one with my own eyes! OUCH!:smackingf I am glad that they don't remember this when they are adults!!!!!!! Thank heavens Im a girl!
Mar 8, '07http://medicine.plosjournals.org/per...l.pmed.0030262
The above link discusses a study that was done recently that shows a
strong correlation between being uncircumsized and contracting HIV and other STDs. The intervention, circumcision, was was so effective at reducing transmission that the study was halted because it was considered
unethical to not offer the intervention to the control group.
Still convinced there is no medical basis for circumcision?
Google the words hiv, circumcision and study and you can find
Mar 8, '07http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...51C1A9609C8B63
here is another article from the ny times about the study.
Mar 8, '07in those studies - about circumcision and HIV - was the link between religious ritual circumcision and traditionally moral lifestyle??? Cleanliness, regardless of anatomy is not a difficult thing - and if any new mom has experienc in taking care of both circumcised and uncirc baby boys - she will tell you the uncirc. is EASIER to clean as the foreskin is still attached to the glans - and a circ baby has more folds to work with.... experience speaks
Mar 8, '07As a mom and a last semester ASN student, I have an interesting circ story. My son was circumcised at 2 days old. I brought him home, everything seemed to be fine. He breast fed vigorously but suffered from constipation continuously. I took him to the doctor many times and was told give him prune juice, mineral oil, etc. Never did the child have a normal breast baby stool. This pattern continued on into his toddler years and he did not potty train for stool. It did not matter how much fiber I gave him, his bowel movements were hard and painful. When we finally got insurance when he was five, I took him to a pediatric gastorenterologist to find out what was going on. After listening to his history, the doctor told me that babies who have a painful experience related to a bowel movement can hold their b.m. to keep from having that painful experience again -- what Skinner would call classical conditioning. Now I do not know if my son had a b.m. on the circ table, but I do know from observation that many do. Thinking about this broke my heart. If I could go back in time, I would not choose to have him circumcised. Feedback on this would be appreciated.