The Circumcision Discussion - Page 117Register Today!
- May 18, '09 by Joe12Quote from Balder_LPNThere has been a lot of discussion about those studies and the bottom line is that even if they are accurate the prevalence in the US does not justify the use. But let me ask you about the bold part. How can you justify authorizing a procedure for someone when you yourself wouldn't go through it? That is one of the primary considerations of proxy consent, the substitute judgment test and why when have procedures performed with proxy consent it is necessary that the least invasive, reasonably effective option always be taken first. Hint, circumcision isn't it.You can find paper after paper of peer reviewed, published, scientific studies that support both. Several have shown a lower incidence of HIV infection in areas of Africa for men who are circumscised.
Thats why it's a personal choice, and parents make many choices for their children who are not yet competent to make thier own. I am sure glad mine was done as an infant when I don't remember it. I would certainly have wanted it done as a teen (90% of my peers were cut), but would not likely have choosen to go thru the painful procedure.
Quote from Balder_LPNI am a guy most people I knew were cut I wouldn't have wanted it done and I think it's abuse. I also have several friends who while not openly hostile are irritated that they were 'cut' for no good reason and would have preferred the choice. Standard medical ethics should have stepped in to give them that choice but for some reason there is an exception to circumcision in the code of medical ethics.BTW I have assisted with a few and the babies get a local (most doctors these days) and they Don't always scream, nor do we feel that we have been Maimed. The first TWO i was present for had no screaming, just a little boy sucking on my gloved finger.
It surprises me how militant some of these voices seem, and they seem to be almost exclusively women. maybe they can let the men police this almost exclusively male issue. I dont know of any support groups for men who feel they are maimed, or deformed by having been circumscised, nor do I know of any male, personal or professional knowledge, that has any issues with being cut (although I am sure I will hear of several any second now)
Let me ask you this, if I surgically removed a infant's earlobes, and of course I would use ELMA or Lido so it wouldn't hurt, would you find that acceptable? Why or Why not?
ETA: And you should google foreskin restoration. There are more than a few people who are making a very comfortable living selling devices to help restore.Last edit by Joe12 on May 18, '09
- May 18, '09 by Joe12Quote from xokissmekatexoSame question: If I surgically removed a infant's earlobes, and of course I would use ELMA or Lido so it wouldn't hurt, would you find that acceptable? Why or why not?I'm only a nursing student but I just finished my clinical rotation in OB. There wasn't a whole lot going on for us to get involved in so when circumcisions were being performed, we all watched. I think in the 12 weeks of clinical rotation I probably saw 8 circumcisions. Every doctor I observed performing a circumcision used a numbing agent. It is standard now (that's what the doctor told me). Babies are unable to localize pain, so when they are hurt, they feel it everywhere. That's why nurses (good nurses) will keep the baby swaddled and only take out a leg when they give injections. When the baby boys are strapped down in the nursery to have the circumcision performed, they are upset with the fact that they can't pull their arms and legs in towards their bodies. They are most likely NOT crying because they are in pain. The initial poke of the injection causes some discomfort. The nurses I watched all had a pacifier with sugar water ready because glucose (sugar) is shown to have an analgesic effect on infants.
I don't know the specific name of the medication the doctors used to numb, but I know it works, because I watched one little boy sleep through his circumcision!
Hope this helps!
- May 18, '09 by natusia84We have circs done A LOT in our hospital. I think, personally, I would want my son to be circumcised only if I knew the OB had a good reputation for making the procedure as quick and painless as possible, because I have seen way to many Residents doing a job gone wrong.
- May 18, '09 by dnp2004Quote from natusia84if you son has a healthy foreskin why would you want him circumcised at all? i am an ob/gyn and only have had to perform four medically necessary circumcisions in my whole career. i'm in my 60's.we have circs done a lot in our hospital. i think, personally, i would want my son to be circumcised only if i knew the ob had a good reputation for making the procedure as quick and painless as possible, because i have seen way to many residents doing a job gone wrong.
i never have performed them based on parental requests. when i was overseas it was considered a cosmetic procedure that was forbidden unless it was to correct a disorder.
- May 19, '09 by consult2Quote from natusia84Where in this equation is there any consideration of the KNOWN risks (many & common), and the known and proven harm?We have circs done A LOT in our hospital. I think, personally, I would want my son to be circumcised only if I knew the OB had a good reputation for making the procedure as quick and painless as possible, because I have seen way to many Residents doing a job gone wrong.
Experience, be damned, accidents happen and complication occur in ANY surgery -regardless of degree of experience.
So, can anyone supply a rational and logical reason for this unnecessary procedure at all? If not, then most of these rationales and conditions are simply excuses for the inexcusable.
- May 19, '09 by ElvishSome of the worst circs I have seen were done by attendings.....and some of the best (if there is such a thing) done by residents.
- May 19, '09 by libnatIf you son has a healthy foreskin why would you want him circumcised at all?
- May 19, '09 by ElvishQuote from libnatThat's a fairly subjective assessment, and most of the rest of the world has a differing opinion.Looks, circumcised looks better.
- May 19, '09 by libnatthere was a poll i might search for later with the majority of american female respondents saying they preferred the look of circ, apparently agreeing with me but either way my kid, my look preference.
- May 19, '09 by morteQuote from libnatthey prefer it because it is the known......believe me, uncirced is more comfortable and pleasurable for both parties........there was a poll i might search for later with the majority of american female respondents saying they preferred the look of circ, apparently agreeing with me but either way my kid, my look preference.