Are Nursing Professors poor long-term planners?

Daytonite, BSN, RN · Jul 23, 2008

Hey! Don't lump all nurses into one category based on your experience with your nursing instructors. Keep an open mind, for heaven sake! How many nursing schools have you been in that you can make a decision like this?

Take a lesson from this. . .be attentive to ask about deadlines and pin your instructors down to specific dates. You identified a problem. Now, develop strategies to solve it. That would be the responsible way to handle this. That is the nursing process in action--something you are supposed to be learning in nursing school. Here's a very good opportunity for you to use what you have learned in a very practical way to your own benefit. We nurses are problem solvers as well as pillow fluffers and hand holders as you are just now discovering. Here's what I mean. . .

The Nursing Process (Problem Solving Method)

Assessment - rarely have their syllabus, scope, and time-lines correctly completed; Very frequently, we find out about things at the last minute. Many times, information provided to us is incomplete
Determination of the problem - they cannot plan for the long-term
Planning
- Goal: get instructors to give you specific deadlines for assignments
- get myself a special course calendar to keep track of assignments specifically for this class
- when the next assignment is given, immediately ask the instructor to commit to a deadline date and write it down on the calendar
- start working on the assignment ASAP
- as the deadline approaches, clarify that this date is correct by asking the instructor to confirm this date is correct
- if the instructor changes the date, note it on my calendar

[*]Implementation (initiate the plan)

[*]

Evaluation (determine if goals/outcomes have been met)

That is being responsible, proactive and putting what you have been learning to good use (I'm talking about the nursing process). It's what I would have ended up sending you away with if you had come to me with your complaint, except I would have asked enough questions to have gotten you to come up with all the responses instead of typing it all out for you.

Daytonite, BSN, RN · Jul 23, 2008

I happened to forget that your screen name is ADPIE10. ADPIE is the steps of the nursing process. Put it to good use.

ADPIE10 · Jul 23, 2008

:smiley_ab

ADPIE10 · Jul 23, 2008

Hey! Don't lump all nurses into one category based on your experience with your nursing instructors. Keep an open mind, for heaven sake! How many nursing schools have you been in that you can make a decision like this?

I am open minded :wink2: However, you've assumed that I'm talking about short-term stuff. I'm talking about things that are months out. I'm also not talking about patient care. I'm talking about curriculum and program development.

My background is in Project Management. The Projects that I've managed exceeded a year in duration. The recipients in the project deliverables numbered in the hundreds.

I've received instruction from instructors from two different nursing schools.

Since there are many professionals that are pursuing nursing as a second career, I'm interested in their opinion and observations.

If your belief is that nurses are good at planning in excess of 3 months, then as a manager, I'm sure you can express your opinion and state so. However, lecturing on the nursing process is over-the-top.

Asherah, BSN, RN · Jul 23, 2008

I'm curious if any of you have developed the opinion that nursing professors are poor long-term planners? The Professors of my nursing school rarely have their syllabus, scope, and time-lines correctly completed. Is this a symptom of being a nurse?

I believe it to be a symptom of being human. I've had many non-nursing professors who also exhibit these behaviors. If I was experiencing some extreme lack of professionalism and organization with specific professors and their methods I would first ask myself if there are higher levels of administration that are affecting how far in advance resources can be committed to form a solid curriculum (e.g. technology, guest speakers, clinical venues/times).

I'm not sure if many nursing programs or schools offer a chance to conduct evaluations of professors by students at the end of the term or program of study, but that is also a rather anonymous method to report continuous issues with specific professors.

In addition, I honestly don't believe that Daytonite was trying to be adversarial with you, she was merely trying to illustrate her opinion in a form that could be easily understood.

Daytonite, BSN, RN · Jul 23, 2008

you have a lot to learn, grasshopper. i am sad that you use the name adpie when you do not know what it means. nurses are problem solvers as you will very quickly learn within your first year of employment as a new grad. the nursing process, if you take some time to read about it, is a problem solving tool that is not subjugated to be used exclusively for the writing of care plans. a care plan is the determination of a patient's nursing problems. the nursing process was extrapolated from the scientific process which has been used in the other science disciplines to solve questions. fight this if you want. i have 30+ years of nursing experience on you. take the hard road and talk to me in 30 years if i'm still alive. i'm trying to teach you something you have missed from your lectures.

http://studentnursesource.com/nursing_process.html

llg, PhD, RN · Jul 24, 2008

Many instructors do not find out what courses they are teaching (or even IF they are teaching that semester) until the last minute. Schools don't know for sure how many students they will have exactly, how much funding they will have to hire faculty, etc. A lot of "shuffling around" of the teaching assignments often goes on at the last minute. Also, being a teacher is not nearly as easy as it looks. There is no spare time to work ahead -- particularly when you don't know what classes you will be teaching next semester.

Also, many faculty members are juggling 2 jobs to make ends meet because of the lousy pay they make as an instructor.

That's often why the paperwork for classes is not done ahead of time. It's not due to a character flaw most of the time.

ADPIE10 · Jul 24, 2008

you have a lot to learn, grasshopper. i am sad that you use the name adpie when you do not know what it means. nurses are problem solvers as you will very quickly learn within your first year of employment as a new grad. the nursing process, if you take some time to read about it, is a problem solving tool that is not subjugated to be used exclusively for the writing of care plans. a care plan is the determination of a patient's nursing problems. the nursing process was extrapolated from the scientific process which has been used in the other science disciplines to solve questions. fight this if you want. i have 30+ years of nursing experience on you. take the hard road and talk to me in 30 years if i'm still alive. i'm trying to teach you something you have missed from your lectures.
http://studentnursesource.com/nursing_process.html

wow!

i feel as if i'm being addressed in a condescending manner when i'm addressed as "grasshopper". your reply speaks volumes about many nursing instructors. i recognized the nursing process from other disciplines. i respect nurses as problem solvers. however, strategic, short-term, and long-term thinking encompasses different duration of time and how a problem or in some cases an opportunity is addressed.

as an experienced nurse, can you identify the time frame in which you perceive that most nurses operate? certainly with 30+ years of experience, you can shed light on how the profession has evolved?

nurses are human. i could be wrong, but this implies that to be really good at something, they have to do something frequently? if they have to do something frequently, then can we assume that certain skills are used more than others? do long-term thinking and organizational skills suffer?

none of the professors in my curriculum would offer the comprehensive advice that you typically offer... therefore, please don't take my comments personally. also, most nursing professors don't demonstrate the computer skills that you have done in this forum. :yeah:

ADPIE10 · Jul 24, 2008

I believe it to be a symptom of being human. I've had many non-nursing professors who also exhibit these behaviors. If I was experiencing some extreme lack of professionalism and organization with specific professors and their methods I would first ask myself if there are higher levels of administration that are affecting how far in advance resources can be committed to form a solid curriculum (e.g. technology, guest speakers, clinical venues/times).
I'm not sure if many nursing programs or schools offer a chance to conduct evaluations of professors by students at the end of the term or program of study, but that is also a rather anonymous method to report continuous issues with specific professors.
In addition, I honestly don't believe that Daytonite was trying to be adversarial with you, she was merely trying to illustrate her opinion in a form that could be easily understood.

Thanks for the well thought out reply. You make excellent points. It is important to recognize an instructors sphere of control vs. sphere of influence. This was part of my assessment and played a part in my diagnoses.

The nursing programs allowed us to report anonymously. I gave my professors good reviews. They are really sweet people that were trying their best with what they were given.

Yeah, I know that Daytonite is a good egg... that's why didn't liked being dressed down

Daytonite, BSN, RN · Jul 24, 2008

that you think i am addressing you in a condescending manner is a matter of your perception that i cannot change. how sly you are. . .only open minded enough to consider opinions that agree with yours. you are in training to enter a profession where one's time organization may need to be changed at a moments notice--and that is the norm. there are virtually no long term projects on a nursing unit of a hospital involving staff nurses.

llg, PhD, RN · Jul 24, 2008

there are virtually no long term projects on a nursing unit of a hospital involving staff nurses.

you're right on that point -- and adpie10 has raised a good point. it's one of my big frustrations trying to make major changes and "lead" the members of my hospital's leadership team. their focus is on today's patient load, the nurse-staffing for the next couple of shifts, etc. as nurses in direct patient care work in an environment that has such challenging immediate needs, their focus is rarely long-term. as someone whose job it is to try to get them to think and act in the interest of the "big picture" and long-term results ... i am often perceived as a thorn in their side that distracts them from "today's business" rather than as a good thing.

with lower-level facutly (the level at which adpie10 is probably interacting as an undergraduate student) ... the situation is much the same, as i discussed in my previous post. with the instructors "living" in a word in which their classes, work schedules, etc. are so tentative until the last minute, it wouldn't be surprising to see them develop a short-term perspective on their work.

hmmmm .... that gives us all something to think about.

good op, adpie10. you've raised a substantive issue that would make a good research project for someone.