nurse diploma

Nurses General Nursing

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i was wondering if getting a nurse diploma RN was worth it? i hear negitive things about the diploma program. I hear the pay is not much, you do not get to do alot of stuff that "regular" RNs do. What is all this comprtition about. Can someone give me some advice on the RN diploma.

Hi all...

Although I take exception to Joe's "ramming" comment, since I don't DO that, I have to agree with his last statement. Education does not a good nurse make! In fact, I had some INSTRUCTORS in my *gasp* diploma program that were degreed up to their ears who I wouldn't let NEAR me if I were in the hospital!! I know nurses with ALL kinds of educational levels that are either phenomenal, or lousy!! smile.gif I think it is a combination of attitude and aptitude that makes for a good nurse. As for degree of education...that should be up to the individual.

[This message has been edited by Heather27 (edited August 13, 1999).]

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Wow, i have followed this thread and found it to be rather exhausting and annoying, for that matter. Sparrow, you spend a great deal of time attacking people, attacking schools IN YOUR AREA, attacking BSN--new grads, and now you are attacking youth in general. Though I do not know you, only from what has been written, I have been able to create an image of the nurse you may be. You remind me of the nurse who is territorial, any new person that steps onto the floor(especially a new grad)you eat alive and belittle them in front of the staff. You are the nurse 'that knows all', because 'that's the way we have always done it, and that is the way it will always be done" kind of attitude. As mentioned before, it is no longer the 1960's, society/morals/ethics have changed, education is becoming a vital piece to every individual, and the hope is that every individual will realize that education is the key to success, and that we can't afford to stop learning.

It is unfortunate that nursing eat their young, and we need to stop! Have you ever noticed it is the 'staff' nurses LPN thru BSN that are the culprits? It's certainly not those nurses who have pursued greater educational opportunities, coincidence? I think not. We are so busy blaming the new nurse, the school, the national standards, etc. that we forget we are the mentors, regardless of how "ill-prepared" our recipient may be. So all this anger and frustration that keeps coming out on this screen needs to be redirected.

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Joe: Look at what you have said: first you were an LPN, then an ADN, to BSN and MSN. You were very well prepared to nurse, probably from your LPN program, more than any of the others. I have found that those nurses who do best in BSN and ADN programs were LPN's prior to entering. I have had distressing experiences with the nursing school in our area, specially with those students who did not have the LPN/ADN background, and I find it has not just been the appalling and apparent lack of skills, but also with the "know it all attitude" they assume (I'm sure for some it is a self protection measure - they know they "don't know", as the case may be). Not all of this is the schools fault but neither is it all the pupils! Also, obviously, not all BSN grads have these problems. What is this particular school doing wrong? Or is it the inherent cocky attitudes that pervade today's youth?

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Sparrow, are you the same person who posts as "Robin" on Spectrum, who is now pursuing a baccalaureate degree?

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You are quite mistaken if you feel I "eat my young" or feel that BSN's are useless. I don't - and yes, I have been working toward a BSN for years (totally parttime - working full time and had an invalid mother to care for until just recently). I am concerned by the trends in nursing in general that I have been seeing for the last several years. Besides having our five new grads (from both ADN and BSN programs at same college) fail boards, trends among nurses who have been in the profession a while are frighting. Example: I'm management (ICP) and am currently covering in emergency situations for the diabetic educator who is at a seminar. All I will do in this case is basic diabetic survival skills only (insulin injections) and arrange for the patient to see the diabetic educator. Yesterday, at 3 pm I was called to do DM teaching on a patient slated to go home today. OK. Yesterday was the 16th, the order had been written on the 12th (DM educator still here that day)!!! No dose of insulin, patient did not have her glasses and could not see syringe! To top it off, patient censes had been exceptionally low (10 patients/3 RN's/1 LPN/3 NA's on the 16th, less over the weekend!)! No one had felt the need to go in to the patient on the weekend and start her teaching because "it wasn't their job???? What is their perception of job and where did they get it? Of those 3 RN's (2 were BSN's, recent grads of only 2-3 years) all were more qualified to teach this than I was! I've not given insulin for over 7 years! I keep up on new antibiotics but not insulin and do not know the duration of action for Humulin! What did they do over the weekend? Ratio was 10 patients to 7 staff!!! And this doesn't include the house supervisor! What is the problem - I don't think I'd have been able to simply set for eight hours! So there I was, overtime (I'm salary, so that was MY time), doing teaching that could have been done over several days, by the floor staff! If they wanted to be technical - It wasn't my job either!!!! This is what I'm seeing, very frustrating, attitudes are terrible. I have nothing against BSN's or getting a BSN's - but if it will make me like that, I don't think I need it!

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Good grief, people!! It is sad that we all feel this overwhelming need to defend our positions on education. I mean, we are all in the same profession, and should be helping one another along, sharing ideas and experiences, not comparing who has the shiniest nametag!! frown.gif If you are a good nurse, providing safe and prudent care to your patients, and you are happy with what you are doing, then what difference does it make if you are a HCA, ADN, LVN, LPN, RN, BSN, MSN, or a PhD?????????? smile.gif

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Heather27: So right, it really doesn't matter. But, this has been a hot issue for 25 years, and was started by those organizations that are supposed to bring us nurses together and enhance UNITY! The ANA and NLN. I threw out my ANA membership years ago when a friend of mine was sued (ANA membership was supposed to entitle you to legal assistance) and ANA stated "We sorry we can't help you because there are not enough members in your area" so other than getting a journal for her several hundred a year, she got zip! The ANA has been beating this around the bend since the 60's and can't seem to make a decision as to entry level for nurses yet. I had to say it but whatever they do, it will still depend on the individual schools and their programs vary widely. A BSN at one school can come out and enter practice with minimal difficulty and another from another school may be 6 months before it comes together (much of this also is dependent on the individual person also). Read the posting I saw at a site for RN managers at www.med-employ.com/rnmgr/Shortage.html to see what is happening. Will entry level of ADN or BSN fix this? I don't think so.

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very interesting site, Sparrow, but it would seem the shortage is mostly in OR nurses.

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Sparrow...So the long and the short of it is that we should be concentrating on our OWN problems and petty differences, and not leave it up to a union or organization to tell us how to be united!! I think if WE as professionals would learn to "get along" then in turn, the organizations (which are supposedly made up of our OWN numbers) HAVE to listen. I realize there will always be difference of opinion in regard to entry-level education, but it doesn't need to become a hostile topic with LPN's vs. RN's vs.BSN's! Let's concentrate on providing the best care we can to our patients IN SPITE of organizational conflicts! smile.gif

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Heather - I agree with you. Frankly, entry level is not the issue that the organizations want to make it and I would be just as happy if it were BSN (although some of the ADN progams turn out really good nurses) but regardless of which program is choosen in the end (should an end ever come - after all this has been going on over 20 years already) it's really the school that counts and it needs standardization. There are some very fine prgrams out there in both the ADN and BSN. What they need to do is fine the best of the best, figure out what are the best aspects and design one prgram that encompases these best aspects. Don't discount the best part of what we Diploma grads got - the best experience! Decide to have a required year of internship (6 months would work) before the program ends. This would be of benefit to all: the hospital because now they are hiring experience, the grad because now she is more hireable, and the old timers who really just want to nurse not teach!

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Okay folks, what is the ideal? Should we have definate boundaries between nurses? Let's say we number various tasks in patient care. We start from the very basic tasks such as bedbath, bedpan, linen changing, feeding etc., and work our way up, the higher the number, the more advanced the skill involved to perform the procedures. A LPN can do from 1-5 in patient care, an ADN can do from 1-10 and a BSN can do from 1-15. Or wait a minute, no BSN in their right mind would lower themselves to perform 1-5, so maybe just 5-15 or even better 10-15. Anything higher must be done by a MSN. Is it really this easy to define various scopes of practice? Bottom line, a license to practice is a license to practice. We better get together and question the people with no licenses performing our jobs rather than questioning each other's credentials!

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One entry level - but they gotta make up their minds soon. One basic type of school to reach that entry level, with one unified curriculum, one length of time for required internship, and one unifed board exam. I have a feeling that is this were so, we would not have to worry about unlicenced personnel taking our positions (so long as we don't educate ourselves right out of the playing field (know a good many MSN's in my area that 1) can't get a job - too educated, or 2) work for the same money as an ADN with same years experience, course we're real small and the people who stay here don't have too many options!)

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