Has anyone out there NOT been accepted to CRNA school despite their repeated best... - page 2

efforts? My "plan" as I have stated before is to apply (along with my wife) to about ten to fifteen schools per year (the ones with the lowest admission standards that I can ascertain). Has anyone... Read More

  1. by   Roland
    thought processes change? Perhaps, I'm fooling myself but I like to think that my thoughts, feelings, and actions are dictated by logical analysis rather than emotions (my wife has said for instance that my personality is exactly the same even when I consume alcoholic beverages she would sometimes joke that my personality was impervious to drugs). As she sometimes puts it " you act like logic is your God, and the only emotion you ever show is outrage." Thus, when I feel nervous (because I'm not able to wear a hat) it is because my analysis of the situation leads me to conclude that some people are looking at me and concluding that I am abnormal (much as I would conclude of someone else who looked like me, although I would strive not to show such a reaction). I have always tried to avoid "uncomfortable" social situations, and I simply see this as one such situation.

    How could a drug such as Paxil impact upon this thought process without fundamentally altering HOW I view the world? The same goes for counseling. Almost every perspective I have is the result, of much introspection, analysis, and observation. Of course my conclusions may be flawed (indeed in some cases I am sure this is the case as it is with everyone), but without changing the analysis I don't see how my perspectives could be altered.

    I'm truly curious if drugs like Paxil can impact this sort of situation.
    Last edit by Roland on Nov 9, '02
  2. by   WntrMute2
    You know Roland that your analytical POV may be causing you to blow what others think of you out of proportion. I think that most people, teenagers excluded, when they see someone out of the ordenary have a moment of curiosity, hesitation etc. and then move ahead. I know that's how I am. If i saw your funky hair I'd think "hey, that guy has weird hair" and then I'd move on. Keep in mind that those making decisions regarding you getting into school have didn't get there by making snap judgements based on bad hair. Additionally, I think it is possible that you may draw more attention to yourself with a hat on all the time. I too like to wear hats, but if I wore one to my wedding, people would be wondering what was up with that.
  3. by   AL bug
    In my opinion, I believe antidepressants don't alter your thought process at all. I say this from personal experience. They do not produce such a drastic change. They make the small things small things. As a matter of fact I take Effexor now and am not nearly as spastic and overwhelmed as many in my class. And I am still able to think just as well if not better than before I started taking it.
  4. by   Qwiigley
    I guess the best way to put it, and not medically, but if didn't feel like I overreacted or got too consumed on things that used to slow me down. I would spend an hour getting ready to study, getting things just right. Now, I sit down and start. focus and continue. There is a misconception, antidepressants are only to be taken until you "reset" your own brain's chemicals. Serotonin, etc. 6 months to 9 months. It is not something you take forever. You will learn in nursing school, pathophysiology class, most likely, that things like stress "use up" certain chemicals in our body and sometimes we don't make enough on our own to catch up. (keep stress in our life and using more than we can replenish, for example). Some people use up their Vit C (smokers, people who don't get enough sleep) and so they supplement with OTC vitamins. If they don't, they get sick, a cold, etc. Same thing with certain hormones and chemicals.
    You just need to be "re-set", get back to normal.
    The counceling helps you to break these "habits" that you have developed while being "out of sync" Nothing is a quick fix and you have to really want to fix it. Demand that every single session with the councelor, that you work on a specific issue and that you have to accomplish something each week.
    Ex: This week we are working on personal relationships. The advisor will tell you to pick one person that you need to talk to and you will decide what that will be, It will be up to you to accomplish your goals.
    Good Luck my friend
  5. by   Roland
    antidepressents a try. However, I am going to try them along with some intensive diet and exercise. As to Wintermute let me offer this analogy in an attempt to explain myself. If you KNEW you had an ugly mole (say on your arm and for some reason it couldn't be removed) you might KNOW that you were calling attention to yourself by wearing long sleve shirts all the time, but you might do it anyway so as not to have to see the offensive mole yourself. Indeed, I can "discuss" my situation with minimal emotional reaction, but it is the act of actually "being exposed" in public that causes the anxiety.

    I think that my main problem is that I used to be VERY vain (with regard to my expectations for myself). My hair had to be perfect, and I wouldn't take my shirt off at the beach unless I was in tip top shape with an "eight pack" showing. I wanted to be a Navy SEAL (which I was not successful in becoming due to vision issues) so I worked out four to six hours a day running, swimming, doing weights and calistenics. So now my image of the way I should look is running smack dab and the face of reality, and I'm having trouble dealing with the situation. Until now I have been able to AVOID dealing with the situation by being something of a recluse (espcially when it comes to former friends and family). Avoiding my issues seems to no longer be a viable option so pass the Paxil.

    By the way how did you go about asking for references and deciding WHO to ask? Also, I think the teahing hospital advice is very good. The trick of course will be to find a teaching hospital (there's only two in Indy, Wishard and Indiana University Medical Center) that will ALSO let me work in the ICU, straight out of school with my BSN.
  6. by   srna
    Roland,

    Shyness will not cut in in CRNA school. I am presently in an anesthesia program and am challenged, ridiculed, and worked over day after day. As a person who is also somewhat shy, I had to break out of it, and not take things personal as well. Shyness reflects a lack of confidence, and sometimes incompetence.

    Sad, but true, many physicians and educators judge you on how well you present yourself. That must be your first goal, and then the next goal is to learn all that you can. The third goal is to be motivated, and a team player.

    If a physician sees you as shy, they may not be interested in teaching you, either.

    You must be tough, assertive, yet not arrogant or cocky, which is difficult to balance. And do not take ridicule personally. If you know someone may be wrong, state your point once, and then let it go.
  7. by   AmiK25
    Roland,

    You forgot Methodist Hospital in Indy. It is a teaching hospital and we hire lots of new grads in my unit (Adult Critical Care...it is a combined Medical/Surgical ICU).

    Ami
  8. by   Roland
    although I DID know that nursing clinicals were conducted there (duh). SRNA, I don't disagree with the confidence thing, but let me offer this to chew on. With just a cursory effort I can recall THREE doctors (two real people) and one a fictional character who have substancial disabilities, and yet concessions are made that facilitate their practice of medicine.

    One is a lady who is deaf featured on Houston Medical (this show which was canceled by the networks last year can now be viewed on Discovery Health on Friday and Sunday evenings). On that show she is given a TRANSLATOR (presumably payed for by the hospital) to help her interact with patients and other doctors and nurses (although she is also very good at lip reading and can speak quite clearly as well). Another person was a "little person" about three foot tall featured also on a special on Discovery Health (Sorry, can't recall the name of the show). He is an Orthopedic surgeon, and the hospital had an array of special equipment to facilitate his being able to practice medicine. The third is a character on ER with Parkinson's, here the least concessions are dipicted being made, but it is clear that his condition has SOME impact upon his ability to be a doctor. While, I'm on the topic how about Stephen Hawkins for that matter. Sure, he's not a doctor but I'm sure that concessions are made by Oxford (or is it Cambridge?) that allow him to contribute to his chosen field.

    Now here's my point. Some people have obvious disabilities like being really small or deaf or suffering from Parkinson and THE LAW requires that reasonable accomodations be made to facilitate their success if at all possible. Others have more subtle "disabilities" such as shyness, obesity, depression, or learning disabilities. If as a society we are going to make the decision to make it mandatory to "accomodate" the obvious disabilities shouldn't the less obvious ones also be covered? Obvioiusly reasonable "accommodation" doesn't mean limitless concessions espcially in areas relating to patient care. However, I am suggesting that we should look hard for reasons that people CAN succeed despite whatever limitations they might posess, rather than reasons that they cannot.

    I bring this up only because I see so many posts (not just here but also in the General Discussion area) which in essence say that if you suffer from this or that short-coming you simply won't make it in nursing. Now I agree that shyness is an issue, but I would submit there are MANY sucessful shy people in all walks of life (I think even Bill Gates comes off as fairly shy). Personally, there's nothing that I find more offensive than someone who is too full of confidence as this often correlates with hubris. I think some people prefer a more humble attitude which lays the glory for their accomplishments where it belongs. That being with a generous and loving God, (I think this is one reason why George Bush is so liked even by many who disagree with his politics). Having said this I agree with you that I should do everything within my power to avoid being overly shy.
    Last edit by Roland on Nov 10, '02
  9. by   WntrMute2
    Roland, a LAW requiring institutions to make special accomedations about shyness? Now I encourage you to re-read your posts and consider your position on the healthcare issue. If that's not the goverment sticking its nose into private sector affairs i don't know what is. Talk about unfunded mandates. Those shy folks will get special accomidations so they can buy their big screen TVs and lucky strikes.
  10. by   Roland
    rather I am pointing out that EXISTING law the Americans With Disabilities Act (signed by a Republican, Bush Senior into law by the way) requires that resonable accommadations be made for those with even "severe" disabilities. I am suggesting that it is morally, and intellectually inconsistent to make such allowances for those with severe disabilities while at the same time refusing to do so for those afflicted with relatively minor (by comparison) issues (many of which such as shyness have be shown to have a biological basis). Indeed, there is existing CASELAW which classifies depression, and alcoholism as disabilities when they interfere with the ability to do a job. At a deeper level I am suggesting that we should look for ways to help everyone overcome whatever limitiations they might posess.
  11. by   WntrMute2
    Intrusion into the private sector is intrusion into the private sector. To be consistant Roland, you might make the case for repealing that law.
  12. by   London88
    Please, tell me we are not going into the issue of shyness being a disability. Whatever way we choose to help people overcome their disabilities everybody needs to be treated the same in terms of what is required of them in school. If I need to do a presentation in front of the whole class so does the shy person. I will not accept that the shy person does not have to perform because of their "shy disability." I agree to allowances for physical disability, but it seems to me Roland that you are suggesting that a "genetically based disability" that manifests its self as a mental disability should be treated in a special way in terms of school. Be very careful with your tendency to over analyze situations. Many anesthesia schools want a complete physical assessment including mental health assessment. One of the questions on the physical form for a school which I applied to was " Does this person have any mental disabilities?" Just because a person takes paxil to help them along does not mean they have a mental disability. The point being made is to stop being so analytical as you might create an unintended label for yourself.
  13. by   Roland
    IF I were an idealogue. However, I like President Bush believe that govenment has a place within the private sector. However, it is my contention that it should be limited in the roles that it performs. London, your contention is much like that which Kevin has stated previously, specifically that incorrect actions can get one labeled as "undesireable" and result in making graduation (or acceptance) into CRNA school more difficult. I agree that you are both correct. However, I would also suggest that there are appropriate venues for the discussion of these issues, and that this is such a place. On the other hand having this discussion IN SCHOOL would probably not be advised. Perhaps, I am merely tilting at windmills, but if this is so it is with the wind of truth upon my back.

    You raise very good questions with regard to how far government should go in protecting those with disabilities. In addition, the other major issue involves exactly WHAT constitutes a disability. However, rather than appealing to law, I am instead appealing to common sense. We are all complex individuals with a plethora of positive and negative traits that both augment, and hinder our abilities to excel within our chosen professions. Except in the most extreme cases it is impossible to predict with accuracy if someone will make a good doctor, nurse, chemist, or electrician for that matter. One person might posess an IQ of 170 and be an extremely hard worker, BUT also have issues of self confidence and coordination. At the same time someone else might be academically "slow" but very studious and wonderful in working with people. Both, individuals might end up making better than average nurses (or CRNA's).

    Furthermore, it has been demonstrated that individuals who have what would have been considered only twenty or thirty years ago PROFOUND disabilities CAN make enourmous contributions with only modest concessions on their behalf. This implies that those with LESS profound "challenges" can also be sucessful IF they are afforded the opportunity. We should revel in our diversity and delight in our differences. They are what make us unique and constitute the resiliant fiber that bind this great nation under God.
    Last edit by Roland on Nov 11, '02

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