Phasing out LPN's.

My hospital hasn't used LVNs(LPNs) for the past two years and has no plans to hire any back. The RNs pass all meds. No CMAs here. I think having a union would be a deterent to having CMAs or not and the RN union would fight tooth and nail against it. The California Nurses Assoc is one of the strongest all RN unions in the country and wouldn't stand idly by and let this happen. I was sad to see the LVNs go because they are such a help in patient care and made the shifts much easier. I haven't worked a Med/Surg floor in 28 years but remember the times when I was given an LVN to pass my meds amd couldn't have been happier, and relieved! This is why some organizations need to monitor legislation all the time to make sure bills aren't being passed that contain hidden agendas. I am sure this NC CMA law was passed before anyone knew what hit them. There is a definite need for LVNs in all hospitals, it's just the administrators haven't a clue. Good luck, Mike

:angryfire I have been an LPN for 36 years. For the last 20 I have heard talk of phasing out LPN's.

I was an LPN from 1976 - 2001 and I heard the same talk about phasing out LPN's from day one. I personally don't think it will ever happen. I just don't possibly see how. LPN's make up a huge percentage of the health care workforce.

I became an RN because it was a personal goal of mine to get a college degree. I think it's one of the best things I have done for myself. Even though I know it's not fair I definately feel the difference in the respect level from my peers, I have been able to advance myself, and of course the difference in pay is wonderful. I was given 15 years credit as a nurse for my 26 years as an LPN. I adore the LPN's I work with and they are the ones who had the patience to teach me how to start IV's.

I am sure this NC CMA law was passed before anyone knew what hit them. There is a definite need for LVNs in all hospitals, it's just the administrators haven't a clue. Good luck, Mike

This med aide position in North Carolina has not passed yet--it is, however, a proposal being highly touted by the North Carolina Board of Nursing of all people :angryfire NC nurses need to fight this thing tooth and nail!!!! So sad, our own board wanting to give away such a vital piece of our profession and place so many patients and bedside nurses at risk. To make matters worse, this position will not be in assisted living facilties such as group homes (non-licensed personnel can already pass meds there, which is bad enough)--this will be in acute care facilities, such as skilled nursing homes and hospitals. Many nurses across the state are feeling very disillusioned with our board right now....

http://www.ncbon.com/Education-factsheet.asp

:nurse:I hope LPNs are around for as long as mankind exist. I have a great deal of respect for LPNs. I've worked with some really super LPNs over the years! One of my own daughters is a LPN. My estranged spouse is a LPN. I hope that rumor of getting rid of LPNs is false.

To LPNs everywhere.........thumbs up, and keep on keeping on!

I would always prefer to work with another nurse...its scary to be acountable for anything done wrong by those under your supervision. I don't know how these RN's sleep at night with the aides passing routine meds on their license.

Cheap is the answer...these facilities will get by with it if the law allows it. Why some of these RN's work in these situations is beyond me. but...they do. The powers that be see this as affirmation since there are nurses who will work this way.

I have worked w/ some very good RN's and LPN's. There shouldn't be a contest between us. We both have our place. I don't think LPN's or ADN's are going anywhere fast. In this time of "shortage", we need as many people as possible who are willing to be at the bedside. I do think LPN's are underpaid, but I think a lot of RN's are underpaid too. There are people who wouldn't and couldn't do what any nurse does for $100-200K/yr. I the state of PA we have many LPN's in many settings. When I lived in MD, we had very few in acute care. I think whoever is a "better nurse" is highly individual and doesn't matter whether the person is an RN or an LPN. I have met RN's and LPN's who were wonderful kind, and knowledgeable and a very few RN's and LPN's who I am sure found their diploma on the floor at the mall. Some educational programs are lacking, both RN and LPN, some are very good. Many times, the nurse herself/himself is so motivated to expand their knowledge that they can and do overcome a substandard education. Unfortunatley, no matter how "good" a nurse is he/she has to work w/ in their defined scope of practice and for example, at our facility where I work in OB, the LPN's can't do VE's, extensive assessments, or work alone in the nursery. It is not that they are "not smart enough", it is just not something they are allowed to do. This upsets a lot of them. I guess it's like if I wanted to do AROM on a pt. I have seen it done mnay times,. I am sure I could do it, but I would never would (except if baby was born w/ the membranes intact) because that isn't in my scope of practice. We need to get together as nurses. We deserve more and patients deserve competent well-educated caregivers, not someone off of the street w/ a couple of weeks of classes making $6/HR. designed to maximize some company's profit. Pt's get better care w/ more nurses taking care of them. That's the message we need to be sending.

I have worked w/ some very good RN's and LPN's. There shouldn't be a contest between us. We both have our place. I don't think LPN's or ADN's are going anywhere fast. In this time of "shortage", we need as many people as possible who are willing to be at the bedside. I do think LPN's are underpaid, but I think a lot of RN's are underpaid too. There are people who wouldn't and couldn't do what any nurse does for $100-200K/yr. I the state of PA we have many LPN's in many settings. When I lived in MD, we had very few in acute care. I think whoever is a "better nurse" is highly individual and doesn't matter whether the person is an RN or an LPN. I have met RN's and LPN's who were wonderful kind, and knowledgeable and a very few RN's and LPN's who I am sure found their diploma on the floor at the mall. Some educational programs are lacking, both RN and LPN, some are very good. Many times, the nurse herself/himself is so motivated to expand their knowledge that they can and do overcome a substandard education. Unfortunatley, no matter how "good" a nurse is he/she has to work w/ in their defined scope of practice and for example, at our facility where I work in OB, the LPN's can't do VE's, extensive assessments, or work alone in the nursery. It is not that they are "not smart enough", it is just not something they are allowed to do. This upsets a lot of them. I guess it's like if I wanted to do AROM on a pt. I have seen it done mnay times,. I am sure I could do it, but I would never would (except if baby was born w/ the membranes intact) because that isn't in my scope of practice. We need to get together as nurses. We deserve more and patients deserve competent well-educated caregivers, not someone off of the street w/ a couple of weeks of classes making $6/HR. designed to maximize some company's profit. Pt's get better care w/ more nurses taking care of them. That's the message we need to be sending.

Well said. I liked your post.

Can you tell me what VE's and AROM stand for?

I don't know how these RN's sleep at night with the aides passing routine meds on their license.

QUOTE]

From some of the posts I've read, LPNs are being held responsible also, for CMAs.

AROM = Active Range of Motion

"MY DAD IS BIGGER THAN YOUR DAD" kind of argument kids have in 3rd grade.

I have worked w/ some very good RN's and LPN's. There shouldn't be a contest between us. We both have our place. I don't think LPN's or ADN's are going anywhere fast. In this time of "shortage", we need as many people as possible who are willing to be at the bedside. I do think LPN's are underpaid, but I think a lot of RN's are underpaid too. There are people who wouldn't and couldn't do what any nurse does for $100-200K/yr. I the state of PA we have many LPN's in many settings. When I lived in MD, we had very few in acute care. I think whoever is a "better nurse" is highly individual and doesn't matter whether the person is an RN or an LPN. I have met RN's and LPN's who were wonderful kind, and knowledgeable and a very few RN's and LPN's who I am sure found their diploma on the floor at the mall. Some educational programs are lacking, both RN and LPN, some are very good. Many times, the nurse herself/himself is so motivated to expand their knowledge that they can and do overcome a substandard education. Unfortunatley, no matter how "good" a nurse is he/she has to work w/ in their defined scope of practice and for example, at our facility where I work in OB, the LPN's can't do VE's, extensive assessments, or work alone in the nursery. It is not that they are "not smart enough", it is just not something they are allowed to do. This upsets a lot of them. I guess it's like if I wanted to do AROM on a pt. I have seen it done mnay times,. I am sure I could do it, but I would never would (except if baby was born w/ the membranes intact) because that isn't in my scope of practice. We need to get together as nurses. We deserve more and patients deserve competent well-educated caregivers, not someone off of the street w/ a couple of weeks of classes making $6/HR. designed to maximize some company's profit. Pt's get better care w/ more nurses taking care of them. That's the message we need to be sending.

Sorry, I work in OB. AROM is artificial rupture of membranes. We shpuld be working together not against one another. I agre my DAD is begger than your Dad. Great analogy.

:angryfire I have been an LPN for 36 years. For the last 20 I have heard talk

of phasing out LPN's. When I read the local paper all I see is CNA, and

CMA ads. For all my years I have been a charge nurse or in charge.

just exactly what does the medical community think these largely untrained persons will take the place of LPN's and they won't have to pay them.

Well, I hope and pray that this does not happen. Anyone out there agree.

Or do you think LPN's should be phased out and there just be Rn's and

cna's.

I have also been an LPN for many years (37). There has been discussion for

that many years in regard to phasing out LPN's. The large metropolitan hospital that I worked in 37 years ago attempted to do that and hire only

RN's. They found out it was financially unfeasible. I know there is a trend to utilize UAP's (unlicensed personnel) to do certain clinical procedures (ie; IV's,

foley catheters, etc. after a short training period of about 9 weeks). I feel that facilities that implement this as a means to save money are only jeopardizing the quality of care that their patients receive. I may just be an

LPN, but I feel that my clinical skills & knowledge surpass many RN's that I

have worked with. I maintain my ACLS, PALS, & NRP & stay current on trauma treatment. I have done case management, utilization review, hospital QA, Nursing QA, diabetes education, worked in PACU & surgery on occassion,

& have worked in Nursing Administration for several years & am involved with

maintaining compliance with regulatory requirements. I am an active committee member in HQA, NQA, Safety & Infection Control. I feel that I

contribute a great deal to my facility & can identify with both the Administrative aspect of nursing as well as the "hands-on" patient care. Even if I was a Phd RN I would still feel that it would be a mistake to phase LPN's completely out of existence.