what do nurses hate about doctors?

Thanks for the replies (especially to NoviceToExpert)!

Patients nod their heads to docs all the time because they want to please them... 90% of the time the patient will ask me what you said as soon as you leave the room...

Now this is always something that has mystified me, the patient is the one that hires the doctor, ergo the doctor shouldn't intimidate the patient. I also don't think patients feel empowered to dismiss a doctor if the relationship between patient and doctor is not working for them.

I have always had the most respect for docs that:

1. Take the time to talk with the patient and their family, answer their questions and are HONEST with the patient. If there is nothing more that can be done for the patient, be honest and upfront with them, and tell them what their options are.

2. Speak respectfully to the nurses. We are actually quite bright, and it ticks us off when you speak to us in a condescending manner.

3. Ask our opinion. We have been with the patient for 12 hours. We can tell you all kinds of stuff you might want to know.

4. Call the other doctors on the case yourself. Please do not ask us to call Dr. So-and-So and ask them to call you. We know you are busy, but so are we.

5. Are not arrogant in their mannerisms. Yeah, we know you went to med school and you are a doctor. But that does not make you better than me.

It says a lot about you that you are here asking our advice. Keep it up after you earn your MD, and you will be an awesome doctor. Good luck!!

please write where others can read your progress notes and physician orders. patients die every day because of poor handwriting...i had a doctor this week write in the progress notes, none of the nurses (about 6 of us)could read his handwritting, another physician came in for a consult and could not read his note. i faxed the progress note to the primary physicians office after talking to the physicians office nurse, and she couldn't read it either. the physician that wrote the progress note had to come back to the floor to read his note to the consulting physician...that is in violation of the code of federal register that states: section 482.25

1) all entries must be legible and complete, and must be authenticated and dated promptly by the person (identified by name and discipline) who is responsible for ordering, providing, or evaluating the service furnished. (i) the author of each entry must be identifed and must authenticate his or her entry.

(ii) authentication may include signatures, written initials or computer entry.

also, listen to your nurse, they could save your a**. the spirit of nursing is changing. no longer do they openly accept the abuse from physicians, both verbally and physically that some of us older nurses have endured. the younger nurses are stronger and will not tolerate abuse. remember that everyone that call themself a nurse is not an registered nurse or lpn. others may claim to be an office "nurse" when in fact, they are not liscensed nor have every been to a professional nursing school . by the time you get out of med school, i will be retired. good luck.

i cover MD's behinds all day long. treat us with respect and you should have a pretty good career.

i am so pleased that you are asking us nurses this question. i, who have been in the nursing profession for over 40 years, have worked in all areas and with many different doctors, feel i can give a good insight on what i appreciate.

the best doctor i ever worked with has been a nurse before she went to med school. she always greeted the staff by name, got to know us personally, and was interested in our take on her patients. when she wrote orders, she asked the nurse if the orders made sense, if the nurse was able to carry out the orders and i never saw her order any frequent check that was not necessary. her patients that needed close watching got sent to the icu or imcu. she knew how many patients we had and knew we could not handle our load and a complicated patient. she was just nice.

i personally have 10 years of school with many extra courses that took time. i know my stuff and appreciate a doctor who knows his also. we are a team and could not function without each other.

please learn as much about pain control as you can. my biggest gripe with doctors is their lack of knowledge when it comes to giving the right amount and the right drug to control pain.

Years ago when I was a very young nurse, I was doing relief charge on the PM shift. One of the surgeons who was pretty sure he was GOD was sitting at the nurses station charting. I had to kneel down at a filing cabinet right next to him. At that point he turns to me and says "are you the head nurse?" Being naive and a bit intimidated I replied "yes". He then looks directly in my eyes and says "while you're down there".

I was shocked. I never said anything, I just got up and walked away. I didn't know how to respond, but it has left a lasting impression on me. I was mortified, but not confident enough to report him or say anything.

I am hoping that now that I've had a few kids and some life experiences, I would be able to deal with this type of treatment from a physician. I doubt this is the norm, but it has always been one of those bad memories from my early nursing experiences.

You should have reached in a drawer and pulled out the scissors!

Docs need to remember that all nurses have friends and family and are sometimes patients themselves. I worked night shift for many years, so have developed the following rules:

• Never refer a family member to a doc who yells at the nurses for waking them in the middle of the night with an emergency. It can delay care while the nurses do everything they can to avoid calling the doc.
  
• Never refer a family member to a doc who is known to be abusive to the nurses.
  
• Never refer a family member to a doc who does not listen to the nurses.
  
• Never refer a family member to a doc whose handwriting is extremely illegible.
  
• Never refer a family member to a doc who does not consult the appropriate specialists on a regular basis. (We have a couple of "cowboys" who play Nephrologist, Cardiologist, Infectious Disease docs, which means they have a hard time admitting when they are in too deep.)
  
• Never refer a family member to a doc who doesn't know when to quit.
  
• Never refer a family member to a doc whose partner fails any of the above tests and, to add insult to injury, fails to read the consulting docs' notes. (This one's courtesy of the smartoff partner of our former PCP, who told my DH that he'd "already lost 3/4 of his heart function" -- a statement that was completely untrue and he would've known it had he read the cardiologist's cath report -- a copy of which was given me by the cardiologist, so how hard could it have been for him to read the note?)

i agree with siggie13- thank you for asking this question.

i do hope you will carry the responses with you throughout your career.

a few points from me ( i work pediatrics imu)

* please collaborate with me about the patient. your orders, which are completely wrong, have almost cost the patient another 2 days in the hospital b/c you are jumping the gun. not every 2 month old needs general anesthesia for a simple procedure that i can get done with some sweeties (sugar water)

*speaking of orders, find me before you leave and make sure i understand what you write. i've had so many doctors tell me 'well you should know what i mean'. yes, i may, but the rn behind me may not. you need to write them legibile, and so they can be carried out correctly. i'm not risking my license if something goes wrong. write the order correctly.

* when writing an order, and after having the nurse see it, and note it off, do not come back and sneak in another order just because you dont want to time, date, and sign another order. it makes for one mad nurse b/c you have just made it look like she missed an order, and she will yell at you.

* when new to pediatrics, or any floor in general, listen to the nurse. take their imput seriously. i know these patients, you dont. take what i say seriously. if i suggest an order, please at least discuss with me why/why not and dont tell me its a stupid order, b/c trust me - its not.

(ever try q4h blood chemistries on a 4 year old with no lines who is stable? you come stick the kid every 4 hours then when its not required and not medically necessary)

* when you ask for my imput, you have immediately gained some respect from me. when i hear the attendings going around with new doctors, and they say, listen to the nurses - take it to heart. most attendings will tell you that 'nurses will make you or break you'. its very true.

* i am your colleague, not your servant or personal nurse. i have a degree in nursing and have been practicing for years. i know what is required of me, and also, what is required of you. treat me as we are the same - we are both working to make the patient better. its called teamwork.

best of luck to you in your medical career. i wish you the best.

Personally I get along well with docs and have never been "yelled at" and by yelling I mean shouting loudly. There are times they are unhappy, which is understandable.

My main beef is that I hear over and over about certain docs is the lack of communication. My patients would like to know what is wrong, what the plan of care is, and how long that is going to take. They want to know what you're ordering, why you're ordering it, and when you get the results that you talk to them about it. The trauma docs I work for barely take 20 seconds with their patients expecting that we're going to be their spokespeople and it's irritating.

Often the families would like a few minutes of their time and the docs never ever call them. Would it kill them to call someone? In this day of cell phones they can dial a number while they are walking down the hall and not miss much time.

Bedside manner oh where for art thou?

Otherwise I think the docs are awesome and are always easy to talk to and call, and they respect what we do.

Well, hate may be too strong of a word. :wink2:

But, in addition to all of the above mentioned points, it can also get really hairy when the doc is asking YOU, the nurse, to contact his colleagues via phone for one thing or another.

Doc, I am not a physician -- you are. I have 5 patients today and cannot do your secretarial work on top of it. You will have to get on the phone and talk with your colleague about your patient -- not me. I am not here to coordinate physician to physician communication!

And don't act as if you dont understand the policies of the hospital on that -- you do. You just don't want to take the time to do it.

And we understand you have a high patient load -- we really do. I feel for doctors having to see some 50 plus patients a day. But that's the work you chose to do -- we didn't choose it for you.

I sometimes just want to ask the docs . ...Where oh where art, thou? Why hath you not come to view thy patient?? :chuckle

As you can see, the majority of the things that irritate the nurses are the same no matter where we are.

I too have heard attendings tell MS, interns and residents...that if a nurse has a concern....listen to them..... they can make you or break you...........they can make your life easy or miserable.......its all in how you go about it.

Always remember that no matter where you are going to school at, where you do your residency/fellowship that you are going to work with nurses who have been nurses for years.......just because we are nurses and you have MD behind your name does not mean that we dont know anything. Sometimes "experience smarts" means a lot more than "book smarts".

I have had a physician call me insinuating that I didnt do something correctly for a patient and was very angry. When I researched the issue... I found out that it was something that was not done by one of the residents (an order not written)........ when I handed him all of the documentation.......all he could say was "thanks". Basically... he learned how I work and why I always say "Don't throw your toys, unless you are prepared to have them thrown back". The second time, he called me wondering why something did not happen for a patient.......again, I did the research on the issue....... found out that HE himself changed it.......... let him know in writing with his writing........... he came to the floor... found me........ smiled at me and said "Im taking my toys and going home".

Main thing is treat the nurses with respect. Ask their opinions.... LISTEN to them... there is a reason that it is called a healthcare TEAM.

Best of luck to you in school!