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Discussion

DNP should be the Minimum Entry Practice

I am just curious if there are any other practicing NPs who are as concerned as I am regarding the multiple online, distance, and Masters Programs available. I feel as though we may be a bit of a laughing stock among the healthcare community, in that we are the only allied health professionals who will allow such inconsistency among the different types of preparation to do what we do. You can be an LPN and call yourself a nurse, an RN with an associates degree or a bachelors, or a nurse practitioner with a Masters or Doctorate In primary care, I remember hearing that NPs are the wave of the future, and will be the driving force in the healthcare market to deal with the primary care shortage. I always thought that this was a bit difficult to understand considering the vast differences between my educational experience and that of physicians. Medical school for a family practice doctor is full time, and so busy that they are incapable of working. Following their education, they are provided with a residency program that prepares them to do what they do. We as NPs, should hold ourselves to the same standards in my opinion if we expect to be considered equal. I also wonder what the rest of the medical community thinks of the inconsistencies in nursing education and minimum requirements for entry level practice. I hate to say it, but I have been a preceptor to a few online Masters program students, and find them ill prepared and not really invested in this as a career but rather a job. They are in clinic a few days a week, and generally all still have the ability to work full time. They lack the face to face competition and emersion that a traditional school provides. Likely, these students are not in primary care as there are very limited positions available to RNs in these areas, but rather hospital jobs that will likely not be associated with their end goal. I am merely playing devils advocate, as a full time Family DNP, Working on a board certification in Emergency medicine. I have had multiple discussions with physicians that I work beside, explaining the difference between my degree, the other MSNs that work here, and PAs. I found it interesting that during our discussion, the topic of PA education was also weaved in. I found it interesting that the PAs in my group explained that the intensity of their programs prohibited them from working as well. I Have to say, that when I go to a primary care provider, I want to have the person who thought it was important enough to focus on their schooling in the same way as their colleagues, and was held to just as high of standards, and that this is a uniform standard measure across the nation. A provider that did not take the easiest route to achieving a goal. Not sure how you all feel about it, I just don't want to see NPs be seen as something less than we are capable of, and would really like us to live up to the assumption that we are as good, or equal to the physicians we work next to. I fear that these things truly need to change

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Sounds like a troll post. For an NP prepared at the doctorate level, the writing in that post has me concerned if true.

I was an LPN for 15 years before I became a BSN RN. Over the years, I was amazed at the hierarchy among nurses. I would like to throat punch all of those nurses who had the audacity to refer to LPN's as JUST an LPN. I saw LPN's referred to that so much that they began saying that about themselves. The bottom line is, don't let these initials or your level of education go to your head. The initials and education you earned allows for certain job titles, advancement, and job duties. Who you are as a nurse no matter the education or initials is usually a reflection of who you are as a person. If you want respect, give it, and give excellent care and service to others. And have some humility in the process. Nurses, all nurses, are just that NURSES. We have our own philosophy and way of doing things, as do PA's, MD's, DO's and all other health care providers. Show pride in being a nurse, and in your work, and more than likely it will be respected by your patients, peers, and other health care providers, even if it's never verbalized. A DNP is an earned honor and privilege. I look forward to earning it. But I will never forget where I came from. And I'll always respect the roles and contribution of hardworking nurses. But if I expected the pay and duties of an MD, I would've gone to med school. With all due respect, you should have too, if that's what you wanted. Lastly, how do you expect to get respect from other healthcare providers when you arrogantly show blatant disrespect for your nursing peers? It's unfortunate that you were a preceptor for individuals who seemed ill prepared for the field. But as a preceptor, you had an opportunity to give them tips on how to improve, instead of bashing them and our programs. Maybe even offer tips to various programs on how to improve based on what you've noticed as a preceptor. Try being part of the solution. It may be rewarding to do so.

Please don't ever become a clinical instructor.

People just need the proper education, clinical skills training and motivation to be the best at what they do. I have seen some great NPs and some not so great ones. The same can be said about medical doctors.

  • Experts
Maybe we could start by using paragraphs as the means to communicate professionally.

Just saying.

Oh, thank you! I didn't want to be the first one to point this out. When I read the title of this thread, I thought it would be tongue-in-cheek. Turns out the OP was dead serious and expressing incredibly snobbish opinions. All this with the writing skill of a third-grader.

I have worked with many medical students and residents. One thing I noticed consistently: they have professional level writing skills. They might be lower-functioning in other areas, but somehow medical school does not crank them out with substandard written communication skills. Why have we missed that boat with nursing education? It's downright embarrassing.

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Many people here have forgotten to point out that the average starting salary for an RN in the US is approximately 45K-65K regardless of weather one has a ADN, BSN or diploma. Yes it might be higher is some areas but I don't see many young people taking on One hundred thousand plus in Student Loans to obtain a DNP before going to work. Many/most who wish to seek a DNP after initial licensure and while working. If no RN started practice until receiving their DNP we truly would have a nursing shortage in this country.

On the other hand the average starting salary for and Hospitalist MD is 150K (after internship and residency) so at least they are making enough money to start paying heir loans right away.

I got these figures from Salary.com

Hppy

  • Experts
As far as I am aware, an MD degree is not a doctoral degree, at least not in the United States. (Someone can correct me on this.)

It most certainly is. That would be what the "D" in MD stands for.

  • Experts
Many people here have forgotten to point out that the average starting salary for an RN in the US is approximately 45K-65K regardless of weather one has a ADN, BSN or diploma. Yes it might be higher is some areas but I don't see many young people taking on One hundred thousand plus in Student Loans to obtain a DNP before going to work. Many/most who wish to seek a DNP after initial licensure and while working. If no RN started practice until receiving their DNP we truly would have a nursing shortage in this country.

On the other hand the average starting salary for and Hospitalist MD is 150K (after internship and residency) so at least they are making enough money to start paying heir loans right away.

I got these figures from Salary.com

Hppy

Yes, that's another good point. No one can afford to make DNP the minimum entry level for practice. How short-staffed would those DNPs have to work for hospitals and nursing homes to make it mandatory for bedside nurses? Not even remotely feasible.

I'm unsure of whether the OP is a troll or not, but here are my two cents' worth:

I think you are probably right, since the OP hasn't been back.

But...the DNP doesn't add any additional medical knowledge over the MSN, it's just health policy and more nursing stuff that isn't relevant to being a provider.

But...the DNP doesn't add any additional medical knowledge over the MSN, it's just health policy and more nursing stuff that isn't relevant to being a provider.

I respectfully disagree. In order to determine exactly what is offered in any DNP program, one would need to look at that school's curriculum and the related specialties.

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