DNP should be the Minimum Entry Practice

Well I would comment but since I only have an associate degree I am probably not qualified in the OP's opinion. Oh well, my patients and their families know I am qualified and at the end of the day that is all that matters to me.

Gee...I have a BSN. Been practicing for 20 years! 5 yrs med-surg, 12 yrs Adult ICU, with 9 of them being CCRN certified. Now I work in a male prison. I start my MSN Program next month. Gotta do it online because unfortunately, I still gotta work Full-Time. But my broken back can no longer do beside nursing and even though I'm in correctional nursing, I still do a LOT of hands on care. So, I'll work, do school and then pass my FNP boards...work for 15 years then retire!

Gee...I have a BSN. Been practicing for 20 years! 5 yrs med-surg, 12 yrs Adult ICU, with 9 of them being CCRN certified. Now I work in a male prison. I start my MSN Program next month. Gotta do it online because unfortunately, I still gotta work Full-Time. But my broken back can no longer do beside nursing and even though I'm in correctional nursing, I still do a LOT of hands on care. So, I'll work, do school and then pass my FNP boards...work for 15 years then retire!

You sound like an awesome nurse!

You can be an LPN and call yourself a nurse

Yes we call ourselves nurses because WE ARE NURSES! Nursing School (check) NCLEX (check) Nursing license by the BON (check, check, and check)

That comment was rude and snobbish

You can be an LPN and call yourself a nurse[/Quote]

Oh, the humanity!

While I disagree with most of the language of the OP, I understand where they are coming from. Advanced practice nurses, as a whole, strive for the same independent rights as physicians, particularly in primary care. And yes, while the studies show that the care provided is the same or better, from a scholarly standpoint APRN's will always be looked down upon by the rest of the medical community. But I also think we did this to ourselves. There are NP schools everywhere, online, part time, convenient. In my area alone there are at least 3 nurse practitioner schools within 100 miles, and this does not count the entirely online existing schools. So we dilute our providers and reduce the value of the education, because it always be done cheaper and easier at another school. Add to this, that at least in my area, nurse practitioners are allowed to work where ever they want. Meaning there are FNP working in acute care settings (ICU and other inpatient areas), there are ACNP providiing office based care. This, arguably, could be the fault of the hiring entities, but it is nonetheless a reduction in the value of each nurse practitioner. Enter the Consensus Model. That model is attemting to streamline the titles, programs, and work environments for each education track. So that the FNP, a specialist in primary care, stays in that lane. And the Acute Care folks stay in the acute care lane. This will add value back to each provider, as they practice in the area in which they are educated and credentialed.

^Wow, informative post Iselvio. I have to read up on this Consensus model!

I took the "only LPN" comment as simply a declarative statement as the OP went on to explain the stratification of our field further in the next few words....

Anyways, I can tell you as a lurker in the PA and student doctor forums, when APN posts comes up it's generally a very bias slant (as here on allnurses). Most attendings/students on sdn believes all that the "NP shows better/equal outcome" data is totally a lie and inherently bias. I believe the majority of physicians love NPs when they are supervised, not when they are pushing for independent practice, equal pay, or recent legislation like the privilege of NPs performing vasectomies in Oregon.

What would a streamlined education for NP look like? I've read about this topics many times on allnurses, but I'm not even sure I can agree with modeling it like the PA/MD/DO education, as nurses would sort of lose their identity this way. Look at what has become of the DOs and MDs, as we have two terminal degrees doing the same thing now. The only tangible difference in the education is that DOs are taught osteopathic manipulative medicine in medical school, but yet they take the same boards and now apply for the same residency programs as MDs due to the ACGME/AOA merger. The caveat is that the overwhelming majority of DOs do not practice manipulative medicine, just as an NP do not apply nursing theories when they are treating chronic disease in a primary care setting. I think I can support something like modeling APN schools like PA schools, yet retain some of the nursing theory and patient-centric courses nurses are known for. As Iselvio stated, without the scholarly portion being equal I don't think the NP stigma will go away.

In my opinion, if I wanted a doctoral Degree, I'd have gone to medical school! I also know that MD's/DO's don't really like Nurse Practitioners to call themselves Dr's whether they have a DNP or a PhD. So, there's that too.

PA's do not have a higher degree than a Masters, yet there's no push for them to become MD's or DO's. So why do NP's need a doctoral degree?

You sound like an awesome nurse!

Thank you! :)

I'm unsure of whether the OP is a troll or not, but here are my two cents' worth:

I understand where the OP is coming from. I too have fretted about the quality of NP education. It is not as intensive and thorough as an MD's. But here's the thing: We are not MDs. We are not supposed to be MDs. If someone wants an MD-like education, they should have gone to MD school (me included). I can't speak for the NPs out there who want to be treated exactly like an MD, but I imagine what they just really want is respect for who they are and what they've worked for.

Let's take a look at something as simple as the MD vs. NP curriculum. For example, at Stanford Medical School, they're spending whole semesters focusing on body systems, instead of one or two weeks each in an NP program. There is no trace of a public health, health policy, evidence-based practice/research, or leadership class to be seen in the medical school curriculum.

It may be true that some students who are taking online programs are able to work full-time, but I also know some people who went to brick & mortar NP programs full-time and worked full-time (not very common). Most of the other students I know, they work either part-time or per diem, and some of them don't work at all.

Regarding choosing a provider who "did not take the easiest route to achieving a goal," that is definitely within anyone's prerogative to not choose someone who did that. We have the Internet to look up providers' credentials and educational backgrounds.

As far as a DNP being required for minimum entry practice, I invite you to look at the types of classes that are being taught on the DNP level: Organizational Concepts in Nursing, Healthcare Quality Improvement, Research and Policy, to name a few. How does that make someone a better clinical practitioner? It really doesn't. I talked to some DNPs who told me that their degree did not improve their clinical knowledge, but it did bring them more respect at the table and it opened some more doors for them.

As far as I am aware, an MD degree is not a doctoral degree, at least not in the United States. (Someone can correct me on this.) So to say that we need a doctoral degree to practice nursing, I would disagree.

The reality is that people are going to talk smack about other people and disciplines. My podiatrist was ripping into general practitioners. My anesthesiologist friend was ripping into CRNAs. I hear RNs ripping into residents/fellows all the time. The main problem is when people start thinking that they're better than other people. I am no better than a lawyer than a secretary than a garbage collector than a computer programmer. The goal is to work together, to learn from each other, and to uplift each other so that we can provide better care overall.

I too hope that NPs are able to practice to the maximum of their capabilities/capacities. The NPs that I know work hard and they just would like to be recognized for that. This makes sense.

Maybe we could start by using paragraphs as the means to communicate professionally.

Just saying.

Well, the brick and mortar program I went to discouraged us from working while getting our MSN in preparation for our certification as NPs, but since I object to my family becoming homeless and not having any food to eat, I was unable to totally immerse myself in my education and had to also work full time. But I also graduated with a very high GPA, and passed boards on my first try, so I did okay. Btw, I share the OP's concerns about some of the on-line programs. And I totally disagree about the DNP being entry-level for NPs. There is only so much of the theorists I can stomach. Maybe if it was all practical, okay, but we all know it wouldn't be.