Vaccination Mandating

2 hours ago, RJMDilts said:

The following is from the CDC website:

For public awareness and in the interest of transparency, CDC is providing timely updates on the following serious adverse events of interest:

Since this information was shared in response to my remark I'll simply point out that nothing that you posted changes the reality that the other posting member does not possess the information to decide that a death is directly related to vaccination. We all are aware of potential risks associated with medications and vaccines...we're nurses, remember.  It's irresponsible to attribute an unexpected death to a vaccine based on a feeling or belief. 

3 hours ago, subee said:

The magic word here is "plausible."  We've been proven wrong so many times.  So what's your point?  Almost all medication have rare side effects.  Does that mean we should discourage people from taking a vaccine during a pandemic causing world wide pain and disruption?   More people die yearly from Tylenol overdoses. Many, many more people and yet it is still a rare occurrence. If you want to reduce your risk to 0 (and you obviously are looking for something around that number), then just die now before you fall down the stairs, a tree lands on your car or your house is smashed by a spaceship.   Pandemic is not a pretty word - no good comes from one.

Plausible is a magic word? This information is from the CDC. My point was simply to provide the information available that shows there are valid concerns about the vaccine. Nothing more, nothing less. I got it from the CDC. If that bothers you, that is your problem. We really don't know how many have died as a result of reactions to the various COVID vaccines. I do agree the numbers will be very low. At least someone at the CDC has the intellectual honesty to put the data out there That was my point. Who said I want the risk to be zero? I have had the anthrax vaccine, yellow fever vaccine, and typhoid vaccine. I am not concerned about vaccine safety. I am getting ready to get my booster. That would be the 3rd dose

1 hour ago, toomuchbaloney said:

Since this information was shared in response to my remark I'll simply point out that nothing that you posted changes the reality that the other posting member does not possess the information to decide that a death is directly related to vaccination. We all are aware of potential risks associated with medications and vaccines...we're nurses, remember.  It's irresponsible to attribute an unexpected death to a vaccine based on a feeling or belief. 

It's also responsible to provide all available information so that Joe Public see that no one is trying to hide anything and therefore can trust the information he gets from folks who are professional. To summarily dismiss out of hand can also be misconstrued by others. I simply wanted to share the readily available data from the CDC. I would think, at the end of the day, the actual numbers of deaths directly linked to the various COVID vaccines are going to be very low and obviously statistically insignificant when compared to the number saved by the vaccine. But an "unexpected" death of an otherwise healthy individual after receiving a vaccine would certainly warrant investigation, wouldn't you agree? Especially in the case of J&J and TTS.

17 minutes ago, RJMDilts said:

Plausible is a magic word? This information is from the CDC. My point was simply to provide the information available that shows there are valid concerns about the vaccine. Nothing more, nothing less. I got it from the CDC. If that bothers you, that is your problem. We really don't know how many have died as a result of reactions to the various COVID vaccines. I do agree the numbers will be very low. At least someone at the CDC has the intellectual honesty to put the data out there That was my point. Who said I want the risk to be zero? I have had the anthrax vaccine, yellow fever vaccine, and typhoid vaccine. I am not concerned about vaccine safety. I am getting ready to get my booster. That would be the 3rd dose

And there are valid concerns about Tylenol.   No one said there weren't concerns about the vaccine.  How could anyone not have ANY concerns?  But I have much more concern about vaccine hesitancy which you seem to promote here, than I do with having to stick my bicep up for a jab.  Hesitancy is more dangerous than non-hesitancy.  And I think every nurse in this forum is aware of what is in the package insert or knows how to look it up.  Do you think otherwise?

5 minutes ago, RJMDilts said:

It's also responsible to provide all available information so that Joe Public see that no one is trying to hide anything and therefore can trust the information he gets from folks who are professional. To summarily dismiss out of hand can also be misconstrued by others. I simply wanted to share the readily available data from the CDC. I would think, at the end of the day, the actual numbers of deaths directly linked to the various COVID vaccines are going to be very low and obviously statistically insignificant when compared to the number saved by the vaccine. But an "unexpected" death of an otherwise healthy individual after receiving a vaccine would certainly warrant investigation, wouldn't you agree? Especially in the case of J&J and TTS.

Please point out where I said any side effects shouldn't be investigated.  Nor did I tell anyone to go die.  

3 hours ago, RJMDilts said:

But an "unexpected" death of an otherwise healthy individual after receiving a vaccine would certainly warrant investigation, wouldn't you agree?

Is there some suggestion that there wouldn't be a proper investigation? Or are you just implying that this information about potential side effects is suppressed by experts and investigations into unexpected deaths after vaccination are generally not warranted?

By Meryl Kornfield and Annabelle Timsit

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/10/16/hospital-covid-vaccine-mandate/

Quote

At Houston Methodist — one of the first American health-care institutions to require workers to get vaccinated against the coronavirus — the backlash was short-lived.
More than 150 employees were fired. There were legal battles and protests. But President and CEO Marc Boom has no regrets: 98 percent of staff have been vaccinated, and they and patients are safer as a result, he said.
“I can unequivocally say [it was] the best decision we ever made,” Boom said in an interview.

Employer mandates work. 

1 hour ago, toomuchbaloney said:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/10/16/hospital-covid-vaccine-mandate/

Employer mandates work. 

 

Houston Methodist has approximately 7500 employees terminating 158 for choosing not to vaccinate and already rehired most of those FTE positions. Btw it’s getting old hearing “so many healthcare workers are choosing not to be vaccinated” does not correlate w the statistics, they are the fringe of healthcare employees. Employer mandates work.

7 minutes ago, lMCRN said:

Houston Methodist has approximately 7500 employees terminating 158 for choosing not to vaccinate and already rehired most of those FTE positions. Btw it’s getting old hearing “so many healthcare workers are choosing not to be vaccinated” does not correlate w the statistics, they are the fringe of healthcare employees. Employer mandates work.

The antivaxxers wouldn't have any argument if they couldn't use hyperbole, misinformation or fabrication to support their feelings. 

On 10/13/2021 at 10:26 PM, RETNAVYTHENMEDIC2RN said:

But an "unexpected" death of an otherwise healthy individual after receiving a vaccine would certainly warrant investigation,

Unexpected deaths are investigated.

13 hours ago, hherrn said:

Unexpected deaths are investigated.

Yes!  How would they have known that the COD was stroke if they didn't investigate it?

For the past several years in nursing school I have been taught that nursing ethics involves fidelity, autonomy, beneficence, and justice. People who are are vaccinated with COVID19 mRNA vaccines run the risk of myocarditis and/or pericarditis (CDC, 2021). Vaccine mandates that have inherit risks such as pericarditis and myocarditis, regardless of how small the risk is, go against autonomy which is an ethical principal that guides nursing professionals. "Where there is risk there should be choice."-Kyle

"All persons have intrinsic and unconditional worth, and therefore, should have the power to make rational decisions and moral choices, and each should be allowed to exercise his or her capacity for self-determination" (Varkey, 2020)

Also, since we are mandating these vaccines, what are we going to do with the individuals that develop injuries as a result and are not able to work? I am not aware of any kind of financial support for individuals who have been injured by vaccines that have been mandated. 

References

Varkey, B. (2020, June 4). Principles of clinical ethics and their application to practice. Medical Principles and Practice. Retrieved October 31, 2021, from https://www.karger.com/Article/FullText/509119.

CDC. (2021). Myocarditis and pericarditis after mrna COVID-19 vaccination. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Retrieved October 31, 2021, from https://www.CDC.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/myocarditis.html.