exnursie

instead of setting boundaries and limits to what you will accept for answers, i suggest being open to what people are trying to say to you and leaving your attitude at the door. i have read too many stories where nurses are denied work based on the past and these nurses had no clue that they would face problems working with a criminal history, i did not see ridicule or patronization towards you, and while i realize that you are upset and aggravated over this, there is no clear or easy solution . i don't see where you said that you received a written rejection letter, and from what i gather, you are taking what this director says as fact. i am unsure what the actual admission process is and who makes the decision. i would have to thnk that there is a place on the application that allows for explanation about your past, and that you have provided this info with back up documentation to support your case,

Regardless of what you choose to think as far as the disease concept and addiction, anyone who wants to stop using has to really want to stop using in order to succeed. This fact is one of the only commonalities among all the many methods available to people for ending active addiction, ie RR, AA, SOS, just quitting, religion, loss of job or family, prision, etc,,,, Unless someone WANTS to stop, nothing will work. Willpower is part of any process and this includes AA... and is the logic behind many of their slogans,such as ODAAT, just don;t use, avoid PPP, and why they encourage freq meetings initially for support and provide people with ideas on how to stay strong and not use. As to your opposition to addiction as a disease related to ibogaine,,, your links don't support you at all. In the interview, it is clearly stated that addiction is a disease that people cannot control and use despite destruction consequences, and is why Dr Mash started her clinical trials.

I would contact the state BON and specifically ask what is needed to show sobriety. I suspect there is no concrete answer and would gather whatever you can to support your recovery, including meeting attendance, letters from sponsor, employers, pastor, MD, and fellow nurse clleagues. If you have continued with counseling or have discussed this with MD's get their statements. Also, begin random testing on your own, and attend meetings for health professionals... It would be worthwhile to consult with an experienced HC lawyer to get an idea what is needed, and it is also a good idea to attend a BON meeting to hear what they say to others. I do need to mention to you the probability of being on the OIG exclusion list, and if so, the restriction to work in 99% of any health care job, regardless of the position. You can self query on this link http://exclusions.oig.hhs.gov/

It is obvious that you don't see addiction as a disease and instead see it as a personal weakness, which is your right and I respect your right to have this opinion, but disagree with it I also really question where your facts come from, as far as the success rate, the funding defecits, and the ability to state hop with BON involvement.

No, it is not possible, and to seek legal advice would be a waste of money and time. FYI, any criminal record is also something that the BON wants to know of, regardless of expungement, or final result, and they have access to all records including expunged by law, so it is wise to be honest, and if not included, could lead to license loss ( depending on the case and the state)

I STRONGLY encourage you to consult with a healthcare lawyer, IMMEDIATELY IF you want to avoid BON monitoing and possible permanant dicipline hx on your license. As much as you want to minimize this, it is illegal to smoke pot, and your reason will not fly with them. I am guessing that they will require an evaluation for addiction, and go from there. OH is one state that does not let things slide, and they also tend to report this to the legal system, leading to criminal drug charges also.

I too am late alot!! And my brain still goes into the desire to lie, after 14 yrs clean... I know that it is ok to just tell the truth and if people don't like that I was just not paying attention to the time... I can deal with it...and lying is the lazy way out and I too don't feel right when I do it.

I apreciate your open mindedness here, and will be the first to acknowledge the misconstrued way that people view commments when in the written manner. Let me clarify something here, I personally have no objection to this issue, and know several people in recovery with chronic pain conditions that require narcotics to control their pain and allow people to lead a halfay normal life. My concern is about how the BON sees this issue, and they are like many in the recovery world, and take a zero tolerance view on using narcotics. I realie now that this was not clear, and apologize. My main focus when respondong to people here is based on getting thru the monitoring in the best way. I have seen too many others who have been in your place, and the BON's have never said ":OK. NO PROBLEM," In the worst case, they will say nonvompliance, and in the best case, expect to be drug tested a lot more, and monitored closer, and often they will look for any little thing that can be a violation, ie, late paperwork, or asking about work.... As I said, I have no experience dealing with chronic pain, and have always felt bad for those who do when monitored and unable to use meds that work the best.

I would not risk my license just to work as a nurse, and you will lose it when they find out. They have ability to see any government site, like IRS, and HHS ( social security). ALso, you could have legal charges for falsifying your license status from an employer.

http://www.aafp.org/afp/2003/1115/p1971.html

Not to be insulting here, but I found this easly when googled, and I would not advise taking this,. I can guarentee that if you that no doctor with addiction experience would have prescribed this to you. Being an MD holds no safety for recovery, and I have seen too many nurses fall into the idea that they are ok taking meds when a doctor prescribes it. I really don't know why they seem to have problems looking up these meds and seeing they are taking a drug that is habit forming and not the best thing for maintaining recovery. It is also not something that the BON will like especially if taking for too long.. In fact, it could be something that they see as noncompliance, since this is not a new condition and you agreed to be drug free. I have not ever had a migraine, altho I have frequent headaches, less since menopause. but aren't there other options for you?? http://www.webmd.com/drugs/drug-6603-MIDRIN+Oral.aspx?drugid=6603&drugname=MIDRIN+Oral&source=0 Do not take more than 8 capsules in a 24-hour period. This medication may cause withdrawal reactions, especially if it has been used regularly for a long time (longer than 2 weeks) or in high doses. In such cases, withdrawal symptoms (such as mental/mood changes, shaking, seizures) may occur if you suddenly stop using this medication. To prevent withdrawal reactions, your doctor may reduce your dose gradually. Consult your doctor or pharmacist for more details, and report any withdrawal reactions immediately. Though it is very unlikely to occur, this medication can also result in abnormal drug-seeking behavior (addiction/habit forming). Do not increase your dose, take it more frequently, or use it for a longer time than prescribed. Properly stop the medication when so directed. This will lessen the chances of becoming addicted.

I think that FL recently began a monitoring program that is for nurses who test positive but don't fit into the addict definition. they are monitord and tested for 1 yr and must stay drug free. There are several states with this monitoring, and used for nurses who are as you described yourself, casual users, who get caught when randomly tested, but have no safety issues, and no violations of nursing practice. Not sure if their license ends up clean after this... and not positive that FL does this, but I am pretty sure they do. In any event, good luck and let us know how it goes for you.

Kayte, Keep the faith... as others said, there is a recession and this includes nursing jobs, and many new grads are also not working. I suggest looking at non hospital jobs, and try nursing homes, dialysis, public health, doctor offices, and prison jobs. These are less in demand, and thus less applicants. Do not volunteer anything to them, and unless the application specifically asks about criminal charges which you have to say yes, say no. Also, with any interview, be flexible, and willing to start part time, or agree to a 3 month period working with agreement that you can be let go if not doing ok, or even offer to volunteer, doing filing, or assisting pts with eating, or exercising... Promise a commitment for a yr, or longer if they give you an opportunity... offer to work weekends, or off shifts... anyhing that will help you stand above others.... Be upbeat, and eager. Always ask questions, including if they have concerns about you or if there are things that they would like to know more about you... and send thank you and call also for follow up dress professionally, be early, be polite, have a good resume, research the facility.... most of all, keep applying, the more applicatioins you fill out, the better your chances keep us posted.

I admire your attitude and again, hope that this ends up well for you. I am sorry for being such a bulldog and in looking back, did not need to respond as I did. I left nursing for a long list of reasons, but to sum it up, nursing was not healthy for me, emotionally and for my recovery. It took over 2 yrs for me to actually walk away, and I discussed it with a therapist, my family, my support network and my SO. I did not know about the OIG exclusioin when I did so, and intended to work in the HC field using my experience... I too was blessed with nurses supporting me in early recovery and am positive that not only was it a God thing, but that without those people I would never have recovered. I remain passionate about helping other nurses new to recovery and have several ideas tht would help, but don't have the ability to actually put them into action. I also think that there are areas where the BON's could improve, but since all states have individual regulations, have not gotten involved with this. I would support any nurse who wanted to take action and am encouraged to actually see someone who is willing to attempt this. If you want to toss some ideas out to me I am open to helping you out.

i do wish you well, and please do keep us informed.

While I agree with you that there are many cases similar to yours regarding CM and misinformation and I am sorry that your status is in jeopardy due to your word vs theirs, there is avaluable lesson and a very BIG point to make to all nurses being monitored. ALWAYS. ALWAYS. ALWAYS have everything to the BON in writing and send certified mail so you have proof that they received it!!! If you had done this, you would not be facing the problems you are. It is the same concept as charting, if it isn't written, it was not done.... and to expect that any CM should recall specifics based on a phone call or email is unrealistic. THe CM job is to ensure that you are compliant, and if you aren't it is their JOB to take action. Knowing that the CM has a load of 400 nurses, I personally would not place myself in potential danger of noncompliance when I was not. I know that my contract stated that they needed any communication to be in writing, and while I did fax thiings at times, I always called and made sure that it had been received. I do hope that things work out for you, but I also can see where you have created some concerns, due to your use of meds, and also with your employer calling your CM, and in their eyes, working as a nurse and being let go. To not remember what meds you were on is also not very reassuring, and shows some lack of concern about your recovery and is reason for concern also. Is there reason to extend your contract for 5 yrs?? Not in my opinion, but they do have reason to look at you and reevaluate you... In this cas, it is very wise to seek legal counsil and I do hope that it works out for you, Please keep us posted on this.

With no ill will directed at Jack, I respectfully disagree with his advice here simply because he works with an attorney whose ONLY online advice is to hire a lawyer whenever a nurse is involved with the BON. PERIOD!! Unless the lawyer is not honest, their advice will be to be honest and this means opening a can of worms that in the least will involve a hearing. Which will need a lawyer, and cost more money... No, I am NOT a lawyer, and this is ONLY my view on this issue. If I was in your shoes, knowing what I do about nurses and bon's... KEEP IT QUIET!! This is only if there was no legal issues involved with this... I would bet a weeks wages that the facillity does not have records from 27 yrs back, and this alone would be a roadblock for you based on lacking solid facts as to your dx and all else. It is also impossible for any BON to research all nurses medical records and to my knowledge has never been done for licensing. I don't know the facts about why you went to tx,but the idea of having a true addiction problem as a teen and finding recovery with 1 treatment session and maintaining reccovery for yrs basically indicates that your using was more of a social or peer based deal, and not serious addiction.

here is a link to a GA lawyer http://www.francullen.com/

From what I know, in order to get license by endorsement ( ie licensed already in other states) you need a cuurrent license from your home state. I do know that FL is one of the easier states to get a license when there is past history of addiction in other states, but to get licensed, they require IPN monitoring. I would see what FL says first and go from there. I suspect that you will need to reistate your AL license first,

Traveler, I know that FL is one for sure, and have read of a nurse who tried to get licensed in NJ and was told she would need to be evaluated and monitored. I think that she had just recently completed monitoring in the other state... While I do always remind people that all states are unique as far as their regulations and no state handles discipline or licensing the same,,, and it is also a fact that within any state, they have the ability to handle each case differently. Yes, I agree that you need to seek answers from the specific state board, but in reality, you won't be given a clear response. I have spent a lot of time reading specific state regs, and never have seen where there exists a detailed or specific answer to your question... it is common for the wording to be vague and discuss in very gneberal terms the procedure for licensing when there has been BON intervention is another state. It may be useful to review that states disciplinary actions from previous meetings to see if this has been addressed by other nurses. Seeking advice from an experienced administration lawyer would be your best way to find out but make sure that s/he has represented nurses and has in depth knowledgable about the BON

I agree with the suggestion of finishing out your monitoring before seeking licensure elsewhere. Even then, you may be required to a monitoring period depending on the state and their regs. I understand your objections and the idea of being tried twice, but this is administrative law and very different than criminal law, and the BON actions are not considered as a trial or sentencing. I know that there are a few states that do want their own monitoring done, even when already completed elsehwere... I suspect that they don't want to assume liability based on other states programs. and the fact that the media has uncovered some states that don't do a good job does not help here.

This is just my opinion, and not legal in nature... but from what I know and have read in the many yrs I have been involved in helping nurses in recovery, you should not be involved with the advice that insinuiated that you are in jeopardy of being looked at as an addict.... ( based on what you have said here) It would be much easier to asnwer this issue if you were willing to say what med and what dx... since if you are taking a narc for chronic pain, or needing benzos for panic or anxiety issues, this could be a concern... I suggest that you obtain a brief statement from your MD that explains what your dx is and why you are taking the med. Definitely disclose this when you are tested and provide them with your rx bottle to prove that you have a legit reason. The MRO will take this into consideration and this should not be considered as a positive screen since you have informed them that you are taking this med. As far as this med being viewed as one that may cause you to be unable to safely work while taking it,,, without knowing what the med it is, it is impossible to say anything I do know that FL does have a law that does not allow the use of any mood/mind altering med when working, regardless if it is prescribed. It is the only state that I know that has this law, and while I have not reviewed all 50 state BON regs, of those I have looked at, none have such a rigid law.

I have several questions here: 1, Did you get written up or reported for the alleged shifts you worked when appearing to be "sedated"? 2, is there any cocern or proof that you have taken IV drugs from work? 3, Who is involved with this accusation? ie HR, nursing administration , manager... 4. What validation is being used for the idea of IV drug use besides your Hep C?? 5, How did your employer even find out that you have Hep C?? 6. Ask them to provide written docs to backup their concerns?? 7. Inform them that they are violating your labor rights, and you will call the EOE and ADA boards as well as the state labor board, and your state attorney about this

I went thru a similar thing, where I was given a LOA, and required to get treatment. I worked with EAP and signed releases for EAP to talk with HR, my manager, and my treatment center and this kept HR in the loop as to what I was doing and provided them a time frame for my return to work. I am very surprised that the EAP you mention is not involved with your return to work and any discussions with HR, and that HR is just now considering the need to investigate and have a hearing about any corrective action. I would definitely ask for details on this, especially since you admitted guilt when they confronted you and that the diversion was the result of active addiction, which you admitted and asked for help. I am not a lawyer and would suggest that you consider calling someone who is experienced in labor laws and ADA law but I suspect that they are within their legal rights to fire someone who has stolen meds ... regardless of why, It may deter them from taking action if you mention that you are seeking legal advice, but who knows?? I would need to hear more as far as what you have discussed with HR, and how often, as well as what area you willl return to, if your contract has restrictions as far as narcs, and shifts and OT, and if there are jobs open that would be better for your recovery, and also what state

Welcome and congrats on your recovery!! I am not familiar with the MI BON and as you may have read here, all states have their individual ways of dealing with addiction history in nurses and potential nurses. In light of your relapse, and your reason for it, it would be possible that they would be concerned about coping skills, and how you would deal with the stresses involved in nursing and the added stress of being new in nursing as well as the availability of drug ( even tho this was not your DOC, having access to drugs will be an issue) I am guessing that they would want to monitor you, but this is only my guess based on other states,,, I would suggest calling the MI voluntary program for health professionals and asking if you can be monitored by them while a student, and in doing so, would help when applying for a license. It would also be better to work in a safe setting such as a position in rehab, vs high risk areas like ICU, ER, and OR...