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Discussion

Firearms

I thought this was an interesting discussion that happened to pop-up on a certain social media site. How many of you conceal carry? And what do you think about prohibiting firearms on hospital property?

I think with the increasing violence these days, safety is a major concern for everyone. How do you protect yourself and still abide by the rules set by your facility?

Featured Replies

  • Experts
That's concerning. What are you expected to do if a patient attacks you then? Just stand there?

Psychiatric facilities provide employees with training (and annual retraining) in crisis de-escalation, self-protection, and restraint techniques employees are authorized to use. It's always smarter to de-escalate situations before they get to the point of someone getting attacked. And these situations do not occur as frequently as many people seem to believe.

  • Author

Thanks for all the input. It seems that these days tend to hold more violence than most, but as a PP indicated, the overall rate is lower than it once was.

I should've looked into it more in-depth before making assumptions based on what I see on the news (which tends to highlight violence more than anything else these days). I hope that everyone will continue to contribute their thoughts though!

All of these gun laws and prohibitions seem to me like the alcohol prohibition way back when. It did not stop the liquor trade, moonshiners just found another way around the law. I really don't see why forbidding guns to citizens does any good.....the criminals don't listen to the law, they will commit crimes, and it ends up disarming people who need to defend themselves. I read an article someplace that crime actually increases when people are not allowed to carry guns to protect themselves and others.

I myself do not carry a gun, as I cannot see well enough to hit the side of a barn. However, I have no problem with other people carrying concealed guns for self defense.

Just my two cents.

  • Experts
I read an article someplace that crime actually increases when people are not allowed to carry guns to protect themselves and others.

Do you have a source for that, and was it actual research, or an opinion piece? I ask because the statistics I have seen over time have always said the opposite, that states with higher rates of gun ownership and carrying have higher crime rates (please note I'm referring to a correlation, not causation).

A few studies:

http://journalistsresource.org/studies/government/criminal-justice/right-carry-laws-revisiting-link-between-guns-crime

http://www.thetrace.org/2015/06/new-study-is-latest-to-find-that-higher-rates-of-gun-ownership-lead-to-higher-rates-of-violent-crime/

http://www.ajpmonline.org/article/S0749-3797%2815%2900072-0/abstract

http://www.nber.org/digest/feb01/w7967.html

^^^I have always wondered if those studies control for socioeconomic and other factors. For example, in the Seattle area, the articles in the local media and some academic papers suggest that most of our gun violence is from the local gang members, most of whom are minority populations on the lower end of the socioeconomic scale. It is not the local employees of Microsoft and Google that are roaming the streets shooting each other and committing armed robberies and therefore contributing to the gun crime statistics.

  • Author
^^^I have always wondered if those studies control for socioeconomic and other factors. For example, in the Seattle area, the articles in the local media and some academic papers suggest that most of our gun violence is from the local gang members, most of whom are minority populations on the lower end of the socioeconomic scale. It is not the local employees of Microsoft and Google that are roaming the streets shooting each other and committing armed robberies and therefore contributing to the gun crime statistics.

That's a curious thought. I'll have to look more into those articles when I have my computer with me.

The media tends to highlight the worst of the worst. Their agenda is story telling. You do need to be cautious but real life is not as terrible as the media reports. One reason why I've quit watching the news.

I used to live in Toronto. I've lived in some upscale neighborhoods as well as the inner city red light district for years. If you paid attention to all the media reports, there's drive by shootings, stabbings, gang activity weekly in these areas. I've never had a problem, never thought about carrying.

I would be interested to read the reports that indicate crime increases when one is not allowed to carry firearms. Canadians don't carry guns and we aren't fearful or dying in the streets. Those types of reports are propaganda used to sell more guns.

I have a concealed carry permit. I would never consider carrying while on duty at a hospital. The responsibility of keeping track of my firearm would distract from doing my job as a nurse. Also, while on duty, I don't feel a particular need. Should an armed attack situation occur, it's not likely I'd be able to use my firearm effectively anyway. There is rarely a clear field and line of fire in those situations, and I'm best off finding cover for me and my patients (if possible) and letting security and P.D. handle it.

Now, I do NOT like the regulations at most employers (not just hospitals) where you're prohibited from having your weapon in your vehicle. I have a gun safe in my car, and usually have a handgun secured in it. Granted, my employer is unlikely to demand to search my vehicle, but I don't like the policy being there in the first place.

FWIW, I don't actually carry on-body often because a) it's a royal PITA; and b) I rarely put myself in a situation where I feel that unsafe. I keep one in my car basically in case of a breakdown where I have to wait for help or walk somewhere at night.

That's a curious thought. I'll have to look more into those articles when I have my computer with me.

The Seattle City Council recently passed a tax on firearms and ammunition sold in the city limits. One of the recipients of the revenue will be Harborview Hospital, our Level 1 trauma center to help pay for the cost of care for uninsured gun violence trauma patients. Someone at the UW did a study and published a paper based on Harborview records and found that the majority of these patients were the local gangbangers, the gun trauma occurred in a criminal context and the majority of them were of minority populations. The Council decided that they should be provided with education to reduce gun violence.

I don't own a gun yet. When I do, I'll also have a permit to conceal and carry.

Violence doesn't just happen when you're at home.

It took me about 15 seconds to Google the FBI site showing statistics for 2013...and the first 6 months of 2014....violent crime is decreasing.

Most people are killed by someone they know.

Paranoia will destroy ya.

I do not own a gun and I don't plan to ever own one. My reasoning is I don't think even if I was in the situation to where I would use it, I could pull the trigger and kill someone. Even if my own life was being threatened. I honestly don't think I could do it. I admire people who can, I really do. I do not think gun laws need to be stricter. Even if I did conceal and carry, I would never on the job.

As a person who was sexually assaulted 18 years ago, I do not think you can ever be too safe. So what if crime rates are down? Doesn't mean it doesn't happen and won't happen to you. I don't understand that rationale. And it's not paranoia to ensure one's safety at all. Not being aware of your surroundings and what is happening because crime rates are down is putting your head in the sand. It just is.

I have been taking Brazilian Jujitsu which teaches you self defense. It's not about who is the stronger person. It's about using your body as leverage to have the advantage. I have learned what to do if say I have a man on top of me and trying to rape me. I know how to get away and severely hurt him. And no, it's not about kicking him where it hurts. I know how to gouge eyes properly and how to choke and armbar. If someone where to grab me and try to get me into a car, they would not be able to because I know how to leverage my body so it doesn't move. And yes, I have had some big men try to move me and they cannot. I've only been doing it a month but I am so much more confident as a woman right now.

Being attacked and stalked 18 years ago was the most terrifying time of my existence. I had previously been so naive to my personal safety. I sat in my apartment for 3 days and was just numb. I could not believe that had happened to me. I kept telling myself I was smarter than that and how on earth could I let that happen. A gun was pulled on me in that situation. I never reported it to the police. I couldn't go through the humiliation.

I am acutely aware now of my surroundings. I watch where I am at, especially at night. I avoid places like parking garages and walking alone at night. I don't let very many people know where I live. Only my inner circle knows. My house is locked at all times, even during the day. Windows on the lower level of my house are always locked. I may open a window at night in my room at this time of the year to get some chillier night air and lower my air conditioning bill. My room is on the upper level.

Always advocate for your safety. I don't live my life in fear, I live my life in confidence that what happened before will never happen to me again.

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