Allnurses Clubs

I am apprehensive that having clubs that are closed or private will lead to divisiveness on the forum. Also, in my opinion, this appears to be a way of preventing the general public from seeing the content of some discussions, as some members have requested. I can't personally support the idea of making some topics/discussions off-limits to some members and to the general public. The openness and transparency of this site are what I value, not the ability to communicate privately with other posters.

The general public has no place on this forum.

It's for nurses, nursing students, NAs, PSW, advanced practice nurses.

I don't go to military, police, doctors, or whatever forums that are specialized to through in my 50cents on how I think they should behave.

And I fully expect a lecture on my bad attitude from certain posters.

So glad that there's still not a forum section for those of us that work in donation and transplantation, but we have a section for med spa nursing, 3 different sections for LTC, and now little clubhouses where those with higher "site standing", or whatever that stupid green bar popularity contest is, to sit in and look down on us peons.

On 1/25/2019 at 12:21 AM, Susie2310 said:

I am apprehensive that having clubs that are closed or private will lead to divisiveness on the forum. Also, in my opinion, this appears to be a way of preventing the general public from seeing the content of some discussions, as some members have requested. I can't personally support the idea of making some topics/discussions off-limits to some members and to the general public. The openness and transparency of this site are what I value, not the ability to communicate privately with other posters.

Sorry this is a month later - I forgot I was going to ask about/comment on this.

I have formed an impression that you have an underlying major distrust and possibly dislike of this profession; I will take responsibility/apologize if I have misunderstood.

Let's be perfectly clear: A nursing forum that is open to the general public does not actually represent the kind of genuine openness and transparency that you like to think you are partaking in. There is a lot that is said here, and a lot more that isn't.

Your comments against preventing the general public from seeing some content of some discussions is coming from a place outside of nursing. I can think of no reason why the general public would have a right to nurses' processing of all aspects of everything nursing. It is really sad and actually ethically-compromised for you to believe that a profession which has been repeatedly studied due to its known exposure to things like moral distress and work-related trauma should owe even more to the general public than what we already do.

My feelings on the matter are downright self-serving, too, except that they are slightly more legit given that this is a nursing site with content provided by nurses. Not the general public.

Do you believe this is an accountability issue? Nurses are accountable to patients/the general public, so have no right or legitimate reason to desire privacy in any nursing-related matters, including participating in camaraderie, discussion of nursing-related issues, etc.?

I don't think it would have to be specific organs, as many of the issues and considerations are the same. Of course there's clinical differences between your livers and kidneys, and hearts, etc. Lots of the ethical/procedural/listing/patient following/etc issues will be similar.

Working with deceased donors is it's own specialty, but doesn't really make a whole lot of sense to have it's own forum, as it's such a small community, and there's a handful of listservs that people participate in.

On February 24, 2019 at 11:00 PM, JKL33 said:

Sorry this is a month later - I forgot I was going to ask about/comment on this.

I have formed an impression that you have an underlying major distrust and possibly dislike of this profession; I will take responsibility/apologize if I have misunderstood.

Let's be perfectly clear: A nursing forum that is open to the general public does not actually represent the kind of genuine openness and transparency that you like to think you are partaking in. There is a lot that is said here, and a lot more that isn't.

Your comments against preventing the general public from seeing some content of some discussions is coming from a place outside of nursing. I can think of no reason why the general public would have a right to nurses' processing of all aspects of everything nursing. It is really sad and actually ethically-compromised for you to believe that a profession which has been repeatedly studied due to its known exposure to things like moral distress and work-related trauma should owe even more to the general public than what we already do.

My feelings on the matter are downright self-serving, too, except that they are slightly more legit given that this is a nursing site with content provided by nurses. Not the general public.

Do you believe this is an accountability issue? Nurses are accountable to patients/the general public, so have no right or legitimate reason to desire privacy in any nursing-related matters, including participating in camaraderie, discussion of nursing-related issues, etc.?

Dear JKL33,

I am as qualified to be a member of this site as you or anyone. I am permitted by the TOS to express my views on any subject as long as I don't violate the TOS, which I don't. You may not like the opinion I expressed above, or agree with other views I express, but that is part of life on a public internet forum. One doesn't get to read only views one agrees with.

As regards your comment:

"Let's be perfectly clear: A nursing forum that is open to the general public does not actually represent the kind of genuine openness and transparency that you like to think you are partaking in. There is a lot that is said here, and a lot more that isn't."

You are making assumptions about what I think, which you are free to do, but please keep in mind that these are just your assumptions.

You further made the above comment: "Your comments against preventing the general public from seeing some content of some discussions is coming from a place outside of nursing. I can think of no reason why the general public would have a right to nurses' processing of all aspects of everything nursing."

You are free to think that my comments about valuing the openness and transparency of the discussions on this forum come from a place outside nursing; that is your right and your privilege. With respect, I don't need to justify myself or my comments to you.

You also made the comment:

"It is really sad and actually ethically-compromised for you to believe that a profession which has been repeatedly studied due to its known exposure to things like moral distress and work-related trauma should owe even more to the general public than what we already do."

I think you need to take a look at your own ethics in calling another poster who legitimately expresses their views on a topic "ethically-compromised." I don't always agree with your posts but I have never called you names (which is against the TOS) or treated you disrespectfully. The subject of this thread is "Allnurses Clubs." A dictionary definition of a club is a group of people meeting for a mutual purpose and that is what my comment above pertains to, i.e. the generally used meaning of the word "Club." So no, my comment above that you object to is not "sad" or "ethically compromised."

You said:

"Do you believe this is an accountability issue? Nurses are accountable to patients/the general public, so have no right or legitimate reason to desire privacy in any nursing-related matters, including participating in camaraderie, discussion of nursing-related issues, etc.?"

The general dictionary meaning of the word "Club" is a group of people who meet together for a mutual purpose. The word "Club" does not denote an informal counseling group, or a therapy group; if the word "Club" means an informal counseling group or a therapy group to you, that is fine, but you must expect that other members such as myself will hold to the general dictionary usage of the word "Club" when they see the word "Club" written.

41 minutes ago, Susie2310 said:

Dear JKL33,

I am as qualified to be a member of this site as you or anyone. I am permitted by the TOS to express my views on any subject as long as I don't violate the TOS, which I don't. You may not like the opinion I expressed above, or agree with other views I express, but that is part of life on a public internet forum. One doesn't get to read only views one agrees with.

I agree with you wholeheartedly on this - which is why not one word I said was a question of your qualifications for being a member nor your right to express your views. I also understand life on a public internet forum and that I don't only get to read views I agree with. I presented a rebuttal, that is all.

45 minutes ago, Susie2310 said:

As regards your comment:

"Let's be perfectly clear: A nursing forum that is open to the general public does not actually represent the kind of genuine openness and transparency that you like to think you are partaking in. There is a lot that is said here, and a lot more that isn't."

You are making assumptions about what I think, which you are free to do, but please keep in mind that these are just your assumptions.

On 1/25/2019 at 12:21 AM, Susie2310 said:

The openness and transparency of this site are what I value

On 1/25/2019 at 12:21 AM, Susie2310 said:

I can't personally support the idea of making some topics/discussions off-limits to some members and to the general public

I took my understanding, not assumption, from your statements quoted directly above. If you meant something different than (or in addition to) what you said - okay, but as it stands, you said you value the transparency and openness and I simply pointed out that both of those things may be available here, but in measured/stilted degrees.

48 minutes ago, Susie2310 said:

You further made the above comment: "Your comments against preventing the general public from seeing some content of some discussions is coming from a place outside of nursing. I can think of no reason why the general public would have a right to nurses' processing of all aspects of everything nursing."

You are free to think that my comments about valuing the openness and transparency of the discussions on this forum come from a place outside nursing; that is your right and your privilege. With respect, I don't need to justify myself or my comments to you.

I agree. I was hoping you might choose to elaborate, as that is the type of conversation that generally broadens others' understanding and gives them a chance to reconsider their own opinions. I agree you are completely free to offer limited explanation as you see fit - and with that choice comes the fact that other people have limited information with which to try to understand and give consideration to your opinions. If you don't like the conclusions drawn, you are free to explain your POV a little more fully, if you wish, just as you are free not to.

52 minutes ago, Susie2310 said:

You also made the comment:

"It is really sad and actually ethically-compromised for you to believe that a profession which has been repeatedly studied due to its known exposure to things like moral distress and work-related trauma should owe even more to the general public than what we already do."

I think you need to take a look at your own ethics in calling another poster who legitimately expresses their views on a topic "ethically-compromised." I don't always agree with your posts but I have never called you names (which is against the TOS) or treated you disrespectfully. The subject of this thread is "Allnurses Clubs." A dictionary definition of a club is a group of people meeting for a mutual purpose and that is what my comment above pertains to, i.e. the generally used meaning of the word "Club." So no, my comment above that you object to is not "sad" or "ethically compromised."

I will re-word, although I suspect you already understood my meaning by the fact that I specifically did not say you or your general ethics are compromised and have not violated the TOS in my statements - I tied my statement directly to the belief itself. But I will be more clear: The idea that it would be wrong to allow any discussions here to be off-limits to the general public seems ethically incongruent to me for the reasons I already stated.

I don't understand any of the latter half of your comment quoted above. You appear to be concerned that clubs would prevent the general public from seeing some discussions/comments, as you say below:

On 1/25/2019 at 12:21 AM, Susie2310 said:

Also, in my opinion, this appears to be a way of preventing the general public from seeing the content of some discussions, as some members have requested.

Perhaps it is. I disagree with you that there is any problem with that. I think that to believe otherwise is the more problematic position for reasons I already stated.

1 hour ago, Susie2310 said:

You said:

"Do you believe this is an accountability issue? Nurses are accountable to patients/the general public, so have no right or legitimate reason to desire privacy in any nursing-related matters, including participating in camaraderie, discussion of nursing-related issues, etc.?"

The general dictionary meaning of the word "Club" is a group of people who meet together for a mutual purpose. The word "Club" does not denote an informal counseling group, or a therapy group; if the word "Club" means an informal counseling group or a therapy group to you, that is fine, but you must expect that other members such as myself will hold to the general dictionary usage of the word "Club" when they see the word "Club" written.

I'm not biting on this; I was clear in my position and you know very well that I am not confused about the definition of a club. This whole irrelevant paragraph should be beneath you.

***

You have spent a whole post addressing arguments that I did not make, implying that I am making vast assumptions about your position and insinuating that I have violated the TOS and that I don't understand basic English words. You have clarified nothing and added nothing to your own position statements. You have given no rationale for the position you hold. Although you have no obligation to do any of these things, it is incumbent upon you to clarify your argument and position if you want others to understand your position. If you don't care whether someone understands your position, that is your prerogative.

On 2/25/2019 at 8:07 PM, Davey Do said:

John Falsey, one of the creators of two of my most favorite TV shows of all time, St. Elsewhere and Northern Exposure, said, "If you set out to please everybody, you're going to end up pleasing no one".

Two of my all-time favorite television shows!