orrnlori

Hello folks - I haven't posted in a while due to moving and trying to finish my degree. I just wanted to post that I left the OR and am now managing the Oral Maxillofacial Surgery Clinic with the College of Dentistry at my university. I've been trying to find information on dental/facial surgery nursing but haven't found anything in the USA. Britain seems to have an entire classification of dental-surgical nursing. Here we seem to have nothing relating to surgical nursing in a dental based setting. Anyway, it's been a real change of pace. I will miss my general and ortho surgeons and I will miss all my friends in the OR. What I will not miss is the nights, weekends, holidays, call and trauma. I no longer cringe when I hear the chopper lift off at work, I know I don't have to deal with it. And for those who fear loosing their skills if they go to work in the OR, I managed to get every IV I tried during my first week in the clinic operatories after having not started an IV in 6 1/2 years. Yes, Virginia, it's like riding a bicycle. If anyone knows of a website for oral-surgery nursing, please post it. I'm reviewing current practices in our clinic. I'm afraid I'm a little over the top in sterile technique for them. Guidance would be helpful. Anyway, glad to see the same folks still posting. Lori

This is one of the funniest things I've read in a long long time. I'll have to watch for the surgeon that runs around begging a scrub tech to help them. What a hoot! :rotfl:

Wow - I guess it depends on the area of the country you practice in. We staple quite a bit. But when I'm scrubbed, I always insist on removing the staples myself so they are removed correctly. When done right, you can rarely see marks bigger than a pin prick and many times, no marks at all. I've not heard of any infections reported from stapling. Might be a good research question. Sticky drapes can come undone when wet or damp from blood and irrigation leaving surgical fields, instruments and the patient exposed to unprepped and unsterile areas and fluids. If I were the patient, I'd rather have the staple marks for two days than risk infection from contamination from loose sticky drapes. And I've also seen some real skin irritations from reactions from the adhesive on drapes and tape. Just my .02.

We train nurses to be laser nurses at the hospital where I work but the nurse is not the one who uses the laser, she just turns it on and tests it and does the paperwork so I'm not sure what it is that you are looking for. Plastic/cosmetic surgery is learned pretty much on the job.

I'm off to grad school too. But not everyone who goes to grad school agrees with this. And the message is lost in the tone and words big time here. If you want more nurses to agree with your thinking, you need to use language that doesn't alienate 60+% of the number of people you are trying to convince. Business classes? I happen to agree. It's all the other garbage that comes with the "higher education" you are espousing that causes people problems. Your argument totally dismisses what has been posted here over and over and over and that is that too much of "higher education" in nursing is lost in garbage classes, other education is tossed out the window by the powers that be, a huge number of nurses come into the profession in their 30's and 40's not teens and 20's, and accessibility to the education is lacking in many areas, etc. etc. etc. Excuses? Try the word "reasons", try "common sense". When you demean those among you with such disparaging words, you will never win them over.

Okay, so now we are all a bunch of blue collar trailer trash. I love it.

This is really a relative question and you have to define what a good income is. If you are willing to put in the overtime you can make some real good money. If you have a life outside work (like I do, 36 hours a week is enough of that place for me), you can still make enough to live comfortably. I have friends in nursing who work more hours than me and still cry constantly about not having enough money, but they also live way beyond their means so I don't feel much about their complaining. There's a top end to all salaries after so many years. You don't continue to get big raises doing the same job year in and year out. MSN's top out at around 30.00/hour at my university hospital, not big money compared to what I read here. My husband makes about the same as I do. Since getting out of school in 1998 (when we were definately broke from my lack of earnings the previous 2 years) we've managed to buy 14 very nice rental houses and have added the equivalent of my take home pay every month in rental income. My house is nearly paid for and I'm paying cash for my son's college education and for my continuing college education, and our cars run. We have a nice nest egg started and when I get enough I'm going part time or going into teaching (if I can get a master's degree done) so that will be a cut in pay as well. As I said, it's all relative.

Good luck with school Kitty. :)

I agree, I had read it and there was nothing wrong with it.

No Earle58, it was not to you, sorry. The reply was to Suzy.

Oh, I see. We only generalize when it's to our benefit, such as this degree will make everything rosey for everyone. Okay, I didn't know the rules here. Sorry for the post.

Okay, so I guess no one can write effectively or speak correctly unless they've completed 4 years of college? Puuuullllease! I was an Assistant Vice President at several banks, wrote extensively (memos to manuals) and was use to speaking before groups of 10 to 100 every month or so. And I did that with nothing but a little old high school diploma, never went to college until I was 39. I truly have nothing against higher education, I'm completing my bachelor's and have applied to a MSN program. What I have a problem with is the inconsistency in nursing education from college to college and the barriers that are thrown up to get the degrees in terms of the curriculum, not to mention the costs involved. If the BSN truly gave more in terms of nursing education, I would welcome it. BUT IT DOESN"T!!!!. It's just more general education classes before you get to the nursing classes! How does that make one a professional nurse? I precept students in the OR and this last semester I've had all 4th year BSN students who couldn't even give me the basics, like on which side of the abdomen the liver is located. Shouldn't they know this? I had 5 in a row that didn't? You can call that a blanket statement if you chose, I call it a deficiency in education needed to be a nurse that I've experienced first hand over the last few months. They may write beautifully, but that's not where the soul of nursing lies. They have to KNOW how to be a nurse before they go to their meetings. I'm sure there are many fine programs that turn out excellent BSNs. I've been precepting for 4 years and I've seen pretty strong deficiencies in the basics in the bachelor programs I'm involved in. There is a problem with the system and I can't jump on board this train until I see those problems resolved. I will support the issue of BSN as entry level when they make all programs consistent and when they make it more about nursing than management and community health. When they do that, I will be in total agreement with you.

This reply is a gem!

Doctor's wives can be some of the b*tchiest females in the world. I don't think I'd consider working for a doctor that is in partnership with his wife. If your little voice says this isn't the job for you then follow that intuition. It's usually the right one.

Ear, Nose and Throat.

Lots of positives. I would ask if the surgery center is surgeon owned or not. The one negative I will tell you is that in surgery, as far as the surgeons go, no one can ever do it well enough or fast enough for them. The nurses will run at a dead run constantly all day long. This is what has kept me from day surgery, I refuse to swing a mop because the surgeon has a 2pm tee off time. So you may encounter a lot of whining and carrying on from the surgeons, I would certainly ask what issues come up the most at this center for management to handle. I've sat at our desk before and literally had 3 different surgeons from three different services all whining and crying at the same time about their needs. If it's that kind of place, be sure and keep plenty of talcum powder around for the surgeon's chapped cheeks. :chuckle

There's no extra pay where I work for all the different certifications and continuing education out there, although my hospital will pay for some of the national certifications if you pass.

The PhD trumps them all. A PhD requires a thorough and definative dissertation on a topic never covered before. It's original work that takes several years to complete and can run into hundreds of pages. And it must be thoroughly defended to a committee of PhD peers. Whole thing makes me shudder. :chuckle

It's measure, you have two nouns, if you had one it would be measures. Think it measures or they measure.

Again, excellent post. I agree. Why is it that only the education in a nursing bachelor's degree valid? There's a multitude of degrees and higher college education (and that's what the most recent posters for the BSN have been arguing, the need for education) that are considered non-existent and/or inferior? Why is it that the 4 years it took anyone to get their ADN going full time considered a 2 year degree? I've read the report to the State of New York by those who have studied the issue, actually several reports and recommendations. Even they understand the aging of the nursing staff population and realize the pitfalls of making the BSN the gold standard and what it will do to the availability of nurses for the care that will be needed in the next 20 years as the babyboomers retire.

Excellent response. I agree with you 100%. I am finishing a bachelor's degree this summer, but it's NOT a BSN because a BSN will get me nowhere outside of my hospital. But it WILL get me into my MSN program (it's amazing, I've found a master's program that GETS the idea that a bachelor's is a bachelor's when it comes to nursing, what is this world coming to?). I will thus have the best of both worlds, my MSN will trump the BSN that is so highly regarded by some here and my BS with it's emphasis in psychology/management/business will give me soooooo much more than the BSN will give if I choose to go outside the hospital. To the poster that wants "intelligent" conversation, I say I agree, let's talk intelligently about education as a whole and quit dividing it up as though only a single entity in education makes one "professional". The nurses that have certifications in their chosen specialties are in deed professional nurses!!!!!! Yet no college will touch those certifications as legitimate education. As we argue here, the colleges and universities are looking down their noses at excellent educational classes that the lowly little ADN obtains every year to make her the best and most highly trained nurses there are. If I'm bleeding to death from a trauma, believe me, I'd rather have ED nurses with their trauma certs working on me than the BSN who's had 6 hours of community health classes. Those trauma certs, and all the other certs that nurses work to obtain and keep are worth their weight in gold to our patients. But higher education won't touch them as being a source of legitimate education. Give me a break.

I've never been bored in the OR.

If anyone were to simply sit down and read several college catalogs they would see this is true. I've looked at at least a dozen BSN programs in several different states and this statement is exactly true. A BSN is simply more general education if we are talking about a "from scratch" BSN. What is so interesting to me is that I've had this discussion in the OR with several residents and attendings. And do you know what their opinion is? A bachelor's degree is a bachelor's degree. One resident stated he knows many residents who have their bachelors in history or art before applying to medical school, the resident I was talking to had his bachelor's degree in political science. Doctors DO NOT look down upon each other based on what bachelor's degree each has. Only in nursing is the "bachelor's" degree IN NURSING" so carried on about. A business person can have degrees in multiple areas to be considered for management. BA's in Liberal Arts are considered right now one of the most sought after degrees because they are considered general enough and broad enough to do most jobs. Nursing is it's own worst enemy when in comes to education.

Most forensic nurses are SANE nurses (Sexual Assault Nurse Examiners) and are certified as such. Do a web search to find the descriptions of various forensic nursing jobs.

I'm so sorry you're having such a hard time. I also believe you need to change where you are working. I work in the OR and it's nothing like you have described, although I came from a unit where I felt much as you describe. There are alternatives where you can be happier. Not all doctors are jerks and not all coworkers are lazy. It's wonderful to have a doc look at you and say "good idea" when you made a suggestion or a co-worker hug you because you found something they needed in order to do their job. It's not all like you describe, there can be happiness in nursing. Please consider switching to another area to find that happiness.