Ethical question about CCRN

ZASHAGALKA, RN · Oct 22, 2006

I have an ethical question. I was looking online to see the requirements for getting my CCRN. I noticed that to renew your CCRN that you need 432 or so hours of direct patient care in 3 years. My manager has her CCRN for over 20 years. I have been working with her for the past few years. She does not take care of patients...she barely sets foot in the patients room. There is no way she has close to that many hours. Should I do something? Honestly, if my mother was in our ICU, I wouldn't want my manager taking care of her. That's how out of practice she is...

It's obvious that you have issues with your manager. But, gunning for your manager is a CLM - career limiting move.

From the CCRN renewal guide, which you obviously read:

https://my.aacn.org/ecomtpro/timssnet/certifications/aacn_certifications.cfm

"Nurses serving as manager, educator (in-service or academic), CNS or preceptor may apply hours spent supervising nursing students or nurses at the bedside. Nurses in these roles must be actively involved in caring

for patients at the bedside; for example, demonstrating how to measure pulmonary artery pressures or supervising a new employee or student nurse performing a procedure."

432 hrs over 3 yrs is not that many hours and a presumption would exist that the simple act of being a manager of a unit that has any turnover of nurses would be enough to MEET this requirement.

I think you also underestimate how much a manager supervises 'at the bedside' care. Not only would you be unable to prove otherwise, more to the point, why would you even try?

Many, myself included, would take the view that the ethical violation would be your complaint itself, if you made it. My take: there is no ethical issue here. You are looking for some technicality to strike at your manager. That is not only passive-aggressive, it is poor form.

I think the most ethical approach here is to re-evaluate WHY you want to report your manager. Is the goal a concern about the care of patients you say she isn't taking care of in the first place? Or, is it to create a professional insult for your boss, for self-serving purposes?

You asked the question. My answer is not intended to be personal, but it is the only accurate answer to give.

~faith,

Timothy.

BSNtobe2009 · Oct 22, 2006

I agree, career limiting move. The hours that you described averages only 12 hours per month, she can do that in one shift.

Tweety, BSN, RN · Oct 22, 2006

You shouldn't take on the role of ethical police for your manager in this issue. If you "say something" it could be interpreted and meddling, malcious and petty. Leave it alone.

TopherSRN · Oct 22, 2006

Far too much effort and thought for such an insignificant issue. I can't even fathom why you would even worry about this especially it being the person that gave you your job.

Havin' A Party!, ASN, RN · Nov 4, 2006

Zasha nailed it.

sunshineCCRN · Nov 14, 2006

our hospital tells our CNSs and managers that they shouldn't perform bedside care! i don't think that's ok for your manager to renew the CCRN if she didn't perfom all the requirements. why would anyone be motivated to get their CCRN if it doesn't mean anything?

i guess that's a different issue, though. as a staff nurse, you can't really do anything about it beside ask her yourself and be prepared for the consequences.

PMFB-RN, RN · Nov 28, 2006

I have an ethical question. I was looking online to see the requirements for getting my CCRN. I noticed that to renew your CCRN that you need 432 or so hours of direct patient care in 3 years. My manager has her CCRN for over 20 years.

*** This exact situation came up on the med-surg floor where I did nursing school clinicals. One of the staff nurses (who IMO had an ax to grind) made a big deal about the NM having CCRN when 1. She never does patient care and 2. She is the manager of a med-surg floor, not an ICU. After the staff nurse telling anyone and everyone who would listen about it for weeks she was informed that the NM worked every other weekend in a large ICU in a city an hour away.

The staff nurse looking like a passive-aggresive you-know-what.

My advice is to drop it and never mention it to anyone where you work.

Rio, ASN, RN · Nov 29, 2006

I have an ethical question. I was looking online to see the requirements for getting my CCRN. I noticed that to renew your CCRN that you need 432 or so hours of direct patient care in 3 years. My manager has her CCRN for over 20 years. I have been working with her for the past few years. She does not take care of patients...she barely sets foot in the patients room. There is no way she has close to that many hours. Should I do something? Honestly, if my mother was in our ICU, I would want my manager taking care of her. That's how out of practice she is...

I think the bigger issue is, what do you have against your Mom ? (TIC)

But seriously, what has your boss done to make you so angry ?

sunnyjohn · Nov 29, 2006

You shouldn't take on the role of ethical police for your manager in this issue. If you "say something" it could be interpreted and meddling, malcious and petty. Leave it alone.

It's obvious that you have issues with your manager. But, gunning for your manager is a CLM - career limiting move.
From the CCRN renewal guide, which you obviously read:
https://my.aacn.org/ecomtpro/timssnet/certifications/aacn_certifications.cfm
"Nurses serving as manager, educator (in-service or academic), CNS or preceptor may apply hours spent supervising nursing students or nurses at the bedside. Nurses in these roles must be actively involved in caring
for patients at the bedside; for example, demonstrating how to measure pulmonary artery pressures or supervising a new employee or student nurse performing a procedure."
...

I'm with Tim and the Tweetster.

The regs are clear. Managerial experience counts.