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Tweety said:

You knew the woman was transgendered did you not?  The woke crowd has conditioned you to call her a woman (on their passports for example) and you didn't and thus it's offensive.  I don't believe you can't see that.

I'm lost on the passport thing.

What pronoun should I have used?  If I had said "her", when the person preferred "them", would it not have been just as offensive?

It was a male competing in a female contest.  "Him" is as good as anything else.

Tweety said:

@Beerman as I've previously said I'm done talking about Biden, I was referring to your response to me that "things might have been different" with regards to a post that I made to TMG about how bent out of shape republicans were over Biden's mental status (and still are apparently) and are giving Trump a pass like they always have no matter how unhinged he is or how many lies he tells.  

But let me ask you to clarify by "things might have been different" do you mean Trump would have lost or what did you mean?   

Yes, a decent candidate would have beat Trump, imo.

 

In the world that would elect a rapist felon and fraud, a well qualified candidate who happens to be black and female is not good enough.  Never will be.  

 

Beerman said:

Yes, a decent candidate would have beat Trump, imo.

 

Thanks for clarifying.  We've reflected.  I'd still rather talk about current real situations.

Beerman said:

I'm lost on the passport thing.

What pronoun should I have used?  If I had said "her", when the person preferred "them", would it not have been just as offensive?

It was a male competing in a female contest.  "Him" is as good as anything else.

Never mind about the passport thing.  Trans people have advocated to change their sex markers on their passport to align with their indenties rather than birth sex and Trump nixed that idea.  But it might not be a situation you're aware of.

Your last sentence is something you should have just said from the beginning instead of making yourself look ignorant and confused about what pronouns to call a trans woman.  

Tweety said:

 

Thanks for clarifying.  We've reflected.  I'd still rather talk about current real situations.

Never mind about the passport thing.  Trans people have advocated to change their sex markers on their passport to align with their indenties rather than birth sex and Trump nixed that idea.  But it might not be a situation you're aware of.

Your last sentence is something you should have just said from the beginning instead of making yourself look ignorant and confused about what pronouns to call a trans woman.  

I didn't know there was a hard rule of etiquette against calling a trans female him or his.  I am ignorant and guilty as charged.

Is this something relatively new,  or has it been the custom for quite sometime?

Tweety said:

 

Thanks for clarifying.  We've reflected.  I'd still rather talk about current real situations.

Never mind about the passport thing.  Trans people have advocated to change their sex markers on their passport to align with their indenties rather than birth sex and Trump nixed that idea.  But it might not be a situation you're aware of.

Your last sentence is something you should have just said from the beginning instead of making yourself look ignorant and confused about what pronouns to call a trans woman.  

I did a deeper dive on this looking at multiple sources.  It seems pronouns have nothing to do with gender.  And, there are many more options than I knew of.  And, you shouldn't refer to them as "preferred".

Apparently, we all should be including our pronouns when we introduce ourselves to others. 

I was even more ignorant than I imagined.  But, it seems I'm not the only one.

https://lgbtqia.ucdavis.edu/educated/pronouns-inclusive-language

https://springfield.edu/inclusion/gender-pronouns

https://transequality.org/issues/resources/frequently-asked-questions-about-transgender-people

It's difficult to believe that the previous discussions about intentionally misgendering people are so easily forgotten.  

Beerman said:

I didn't know there was a hard rule of etiquette against calling a trans female him or his.  I am ignorant and guilty as charged.

Is this something relatively new,  or has it been the custom for quite sometime?

Misgendering a trans person has been an issue pretty much since gender re-assignment care has been available. Putting aside the potential harm it can cause, there's a simple matter of courtesy. It involves respecting the person's sense of self and identity. The practice of specifying one's pronouns is also a courtesy that acknowledges that gender identity isn't always obvious - ask any butch.

 

Beerman said:

I did a deeper dive on this looking at multiple sources.  It seems pronouns have nothing to do with gender.  And, there are many more options than I knew of.  And, you shouldn't refer to them as "preferred".

Apparently, we all should be including our pronouns when we introduce ourselves to others. 

I was even more ignorant than I imagined.  But, it seems I'm not the only one.

https://lgbtqia.ucdavis.edu/educated/pronouns-inclusive-language

https://springfield.edu/inclusion/gender-pronouns

https://transequality.org/issues/resources/frequently-asked-questions-about-transgender-people

99% of us don't need to identify pronouns but if someone does I respect  them.  As a woke cis gay man, I didn't get that memo.

I saw a MAGA recently say "I have no pronouns" ...um someone want tell her. Guess it's a trigger.

But you weren't confused or ignorant when you said him.  

I told you how that felt and reading "a man pretending to be a woman".  That's all.  You do you.  I'm triggered but grown.

Tweety said:

99% of us don't need to identify pronouns but if someone does I respect  them.  As a woke cis gay man, I didn't get that memo.

 

Well, you may not be as woke as you think.  According to the UC-Davis LGBTQIA Resource Center (referenced in my last post) it is important that we all do identify pronouns.

"Make a habit of introducing yourself with your pronouns, not just in LGBTQIA-specific situations. This makes sharing pronouns routine, instead of singling out certain people or communities."

.... 

"At the start of work meetings, make it a habit to go around the room and have everyone introduce themselves and their pronouns if they feel comfortable. One can emphasize that sharing pronouns is an important part of respecting each person's identity and is part of creating an inclusive space."

And so many options:

 

"Examples of Pronouns:

(This is NOT an exhaustive list. Any combination is possible!)

___ laughed.

Ask ____!

That's ____ pen.

That pen's ____.

Did ___ enjoy _____?

co

co

cos

cos

coself

en

en

ens

ens

enself

ey

em

eir

eirs

emself

he

him

his

his

himself

she

her

her

hers

herself

they

them

their

theirs

themself

xie

hir ("here")

hir

hirs

hirself

yo

yo

yos

yos

yoself

ze

ve

zir

vis

zir

ver

zirs

ver

zirself

verself

Example: Ze reminded zirself to pick up zir umbrella before going outside."

Tweety said:

I saw a MAGA recently say "I have no pronouns" ...um someone want tell her. Guess it's a trigger.

 

Tell her what? (Again, from the LGBTQIA Resource Center)

"Other approaches to pronouns:

" Just my name, please.”

" No preference!”

"It's better if you mix 'em up!”

"No pronouns for me!"

-Beerman (yo/yos/yoself)