divobari

I just have to say that any non-prescriber healthcare professional with any advanced degree, i.e. Nurse educator, Nurse administrator, Hospital CEO(Typically with MBA or MPH), Nurse Anesthetist(non prescriber in many states) could take your remark as patronizing, too. The reality is that no one knows what an advanced degree will get them until they actually get one - both knowlede-wise and job-wise. I'll support complacency in colleagues(as long as they are happy, I don't care.), but the need to denigrate those who want to see the profession continue to advance or continue to challenge themselves says more about the critics than those pressing forward. In the end, any advancement it will benefit all nurses and patient-care.

This is called poor workplace culture. Based on your encounter, it sounds like it leaves one wanting. I can only imagine how these types of nurses treat their clients and the kinds of biases and micro-aggressions they foster towards their patients.

I am currently pursuing a DNP and am pleased with the skill that I have gained this far. There is clearly a divide in nursing. There are those who want it to be a labor intensive profession and others who want to use it to influence delivery of care. Nursing, albeit hard to admit, is not terribly difficult to join. So, some are able to make a decent living with less time compred to other healthcare professions. I think ADN/BSN RNs do a fine job. However, I do believe that the more knowledge/skill you have, the better equipped you are to advocate for your patient, when necessary. I've seen nurses who were clearly in the right lose the argument because they didn't have the language and confidence to support their concerns. Furthermore, this is all about personal goals. If you choose to remain where you are, do not disparage others who choose to move on.(something that I have to deal with on a weekly basis.) And those of us who move on, let's inspire others by our actions!

Im not concerned. The negative, uninformed comments reflect on the person - not the profession. Some clearly have resentment for whatever reason... :-) Great reflection!!

In my area, major hospital systems start NPs at $125k-140k, depending on experience... I spoke to a recruiter who was trying to persuade me to not become an AGNP and he said he got a psych NP $130k - with no experience. Not bad for such mediocrity, huh?

Sounds a bit acrimonious, but I'll accept the warm wish... Thanks! :-)

This is draining my energy. LOL! Ok. What is the point here? NP education - along with ANY education one receives - is what the individual makes of it. It also continues as a professional. We can sit back and complain about what we're not getting and how inexpensive NPs should be or do something about it(besides make disparaging comments on allnurses). In regards to me talking to US med students.(maybe I'm responding to one now?) I think I already mentioned that in NP school, I trained alongside med students, was precepted by Cardiologist, Cardiothoracic Surgeon, Primary care physician, Oncologist, and Adult-Gero Primary Care and specialty NPs, mostly at top academic institutions in my area. Additionally, I have close friends who are ER, Neuro, and Onc docs. I can confidently say that I get what it takes to become a physician. What people need to learn is the history of medicine and you will see that the NP profession is actually following in the footsteps of MDs and DOs. I find that the biggest barrier are the nurses who seem to think that it is impossible for a nurse to have more "brain power". I often compare and contrast the experiences(and focus) between the two models. I have learned a great amount from my exposure to medicine. My goal as a future educator/preceptor is to incorporate what I learned from medicine more into the NP model, while holding my students accountable for their own education.

yes, and in many major hospitals, you are calling an NP/PA at 02:00. also, have you ever worked with residents or fellows or attendings? Maybe it is because I am at an academic center, I see what happens behind the facade of the "know it all" physician. They are constantly learning and sharing knowledge. The good NPs do the same. There is on the job learning for everyone on the team, because medicine is constantly changing. I question the motives of those who need to defend the MDs at the cost of throwing nursing under the bus. What is with this forum?

Again, with all do respect, we do it to ourselves... Firstly, even if you have earned a doctorate in circus arts, you are a "DR." It is an academic title - not a physician copyrighted title. Physicians weren't always called "Dr", either. It was only when they introduced the MD education from Europe to improve their standard of care. Prior to this, they actually practiced quackery (look at physician notes from the 17-18 hundreds about the practice of bloodletting). Even the lab coat was an attempt to be taken more seriously. Look at old pics - they wore all black. lastly, the confident physicians actually admire DNPs for what they bring to the table. And the confident DNPs will introduce themselves either by their first name or "Dr. XYP and I'm an NP"... In regards to salary negotiation, you can also offer to work at the agreed salary with the expectation that you get a increase after a few months, because you will likely not be as productive in the orientation/beginning phase. Then, just start knocking them out. ;-) if they don't agree, find another job, which is actually another way to increase your salary. You will be more competitive. Good luck!!

I think that most people, even in other careers, generally don't know how to negotiate salary package. Think about all of the craziness that we put up with. I mean, look at the above comments about schools, Med vs NP school, Online vs Brick and Mortar... What does it matter? Everyone comes from different walks of life. NPs do work that many physicians wont do. Also, they are scrambling for NPs, because of the high standard of care that NPs bring to the table. I believe that if you can diagnose and manage care(including knowing what is out of your scope and when to refer/consult) at a high standard, you are qualified - basta! If you know how much you will potentially bring in, acknowledge this to your employer. I will cautiously say that I've been to practices - even in an ED where the NP(well experienced ER nursing) took way too long(up to 1 hour) with patients, while in the meantime, the physicians and PA were complaining about her. I also know another instance where the NP would take 45-1hour with patients, making other patients wait up to two hours for an appointment. Some would leave!... For me, the concession that we did not go to med school is an admission that we are expected to give inferior care to our patients. As a patient, I would hate to hear "the doctor is not in, but the less educated/less qualified NP could see you.(should shrug)"

My wife and I lived in Germany for a few years. She tried to find work as a nurse through the military. They proved to be flakes. They will give priority to service members and their spouses, and native Germans. My some was born in a German hospital. It is VERY different. Nurses tend to be more like CNAs. They are not paid well, but no one really earns much in Germany. Nurses tend to come from out of the country. In order to work in Germany, you need to be at niveau B1 of German fluency. That is super basic proficiency. I would start with the military and get over to Germany to get acclimated with the language and culture. You need both before you can start working as a nurse. Good luck!!

In all cases of distress and desperation, their true self is revieled.

I'm african-american, Ivy-league educated, and lived in other countries(and it has nothing to do with the US military.) I speak 3 languages, and was born in Bronx, NY - the ghetto. I say that only to help you to feel the empowerment that is within you to know that you have likely had your share of adversity as an immigrant, clearly overcoming them. You then became a nurse. It is people like the older white lady(and no, they do not get a free "racist/bigot" pass from me, as mentioned earlier.) you cared for that give the rest a bad reputation and sometimes make you want to go the other way. I will say that whenever you are dealing with a patient, regardless of race or gender, it can never be about you. Maybe it wasn't about race but truly about her religion, or about gender... As a male, I've been kicked out of patients' room not by the patient, but by my preceptors, because they needed to inspect a woman's hemorrhoid, for example. When you feel yourself absorbing the negative energy/emotion, excuse yourself, regroup, and enter the room like it is your first time meeting that person.

Maybe try being a flu clinic. Yes, we should all strive for a great work-life balance. I do NOT believe that nursing is a calling, but you have to be committed to going above and beyond protocol. If I listened to what is misinterpreted as a "calling", I would actually not be a nurse, particularly because I am a heterosexual male. That's an old school mentality because nursing was historically an extension of a religious origin, which founded many of the hospitals across the country and were run by nuns(which is a calling all within itself). I am NOT a fan of "in it for the pay"(it is your life, so please keep the mentality.) types because it typically reflects in their work and interaction with colleagues and more importantly, patient care. This creates a less than optimal working atmosphere for all stakeholders. I believe that this is part of the problem with the field and it is not limited to nursing. Get a job and approach it objectively - you may end up loving it more than you ever imagined...

Touché! Terrible and false example.

Sorry, I'm on vacation, so I'm avoiding my computer. You are on campus from roughly 9-5 and on fridays from 9-1. Clinical is on weds and thurs, from 7-3ish. The program is a little modified, so I'm not sure how schedule differs from my experience. You will likely have weekends free - and you will need that. Overall, you will be busy and feel like you are always behind, but that is the nature of any accelerated program. Classes are a mix of lecture hall-style and smaller classes. Clinical groups are small. I hope that this answers your questions. Happy New Year!

Yeah, it is just getting past that first year, then you will have an easier time finding a job.

I will not give up personal information, BUT I can tell you that we have students who were musicians, dancers, biologists, emt, pre-med, pharm techs, vet techs, CNA, English majors, writers, speed racer, etc. They really do mean it, when they say that they look at the individual. Therefore, I wouldn't worry too much about a GPA - provided it meets the required minimum. :-) I remember GRE scores were a big concern for some. I think that they are looking for 50th percentile or above in both parts. If you score lower than 50%, it will not rule you out as a candidate. I hope that this helps. :-)

Have you considered moving to another state for a year or two and work as an RN? There are so many areas of the country where you will be welcomed, with open arms. :-)

I hate talking about the job situation. As a new grad RN, it is hard to find a job, because of the "new-grad" issue. There is an abundance of new grads in NYC. Plus, people from all over the country and world work here, too. However, if you want a job, it is certainly possible. Some of my colleagues got jobs almost immediately(likely through connections) after passing the NCLEX, others were hired throughout the summer and fall. One ER called the school looking for a student that did a rotation there and wanted to hire him! Columbia grads have a great reputation. Some of my colleagues simply left NYC for work in other states. In the NP portion, you can either work as an RN for the experience or go straight through - without ever working as an RN. Either way, you will be able to find a job. The only specialty that I hear may be hard to find a job without experience is the Acute Care NP. The thing is to not expect your ideal job the first time around.

My pleasure. I'm sorry about the delayed response. I was finishing up a paper that I had to hand in. Then, Christmas came... :-) I think that that program is quite intense, as is expected in an accelerated nursing program. You are learning the fundamental nursing while taking advanced courses. You will finish the fundamental nursing with an impressive knowledge base. I tend to front load my studying. Therefore, I found myself stressing out during the "lulls", but relaxed for the exams. I don't think the work is particularly difficult, but it is 2-3 years of information that you are cramming in one year. You start clinical immediately and the clinical instructors are pretty intense. I live rather far from campus. Commuting is tough, because of the high amount of commuters and their aggressive mentality. If you can, try to live close to campus. It isn't too expensive, especially if you have a roommate or two. Feel free to ask questions, I will do my best to stay tuned.

I hear you. My comment about the evidence may have been misinterpreted. Sorry for that. I am never interested in adding fuel to anyone's flame... There needs to be more interest in studying the impact of the APRN/DNP role. Of course, there are definitive studies about NPs providing comparable care to MD/DOs and I respect the research. Nurses can sometimes be their worst politicians/critics in the field. Sometimes, the harsh criticism isn't even solicited or even warranted. Sharing experiences is how I and many others learn about the DNP. Confident, honest, open people love to hear from others about their accomplishments and goals. How could anyone debase that? Sometimes it is the ones that lack the confidence(or energy) to push the profession forward, but can't recognize it in others. One nurse's success is a success for all of us - no matter how "uppity" one may seem.

OK... 1/"1000's"(by the way, the link is empty). I never said that I didn't believe the evidence. Also, I know and believe in the available literature regarding comparable care. Remember, I am on the side of NPs... Jeez. Why don't you discuss how getting a DNP has enhanced your practice, expanded your knowledge base? What gaps were filled that were left by the MSN. Discuss how being autonomous has and will enhance care for any population? This is where the conversation often(not always, please don't jump on that... help us all!) goes south for NPs, unfortunately. Then, they pull the IOM card. It is the inability to articulately present their case and consistently hold their guns - without losing your cool. Trust me, it works.

Hey, I recently completed the ETP and thought I'd offer support to those waiting to hear back. I am also willing to debunk any myths about the program. Happy Holidays and try to forget that you applied... I know, hard to do. :-) Hopefully, they will get back to you all in a timely fashion.

We can talk about what the evidence says, which I frankly don't believe that there is enough of. However, I certainly respect what IS available. The DNP is a personal choice that depends on what kind of career you want in Nursing. The fact is that where there is cost involved, the most adamant defenders(or offenders) appear. There is money for DNP, for example, I received a grant that is paying for my DNP with the stipulation that I work with underserved populations. Isn't that the premise of NPs anyway? - health equity for all. Furthermore, I get to leave my institution's walls and see what is being said on a national level. It is not just Nursing professionals calling for my advancement in nursing, but MDs who understand the challenges our nation faces. For example, I am focused on Oncology and we are lectured by OngologISTS from a major cancer center, who are lead researchers in clinical trials. They are extremely cognizant of the value of a doctorally-prepared nurse practitioner and digress from lecture to really explain to us what value we have in the clinical setting. Some even say they trust NPs more than their residents. Is this unusual?... maybe not... it depends on who you speak to. I think that nurses are sometimes the quickest to debase conversations pertaining to advancement. When you see this advancement as a benefit for the population you serve, which is what the DNP should be focused on, even if you choose to not advance, encourage those who are willing to spend the extra time (and money) learning, growing and advocating for everyone.