zman

Staceracer1, As an Air Force nurse and Captain with 8 years of active Air Force service, prior Army deployed experience, and a very fulfilling experience treating initial casualties from Operation Enduring Freedom, here are some thoughts... "Before the election, I told my husband that I would only join the Air Force if President George W Bush was re-elected, because I refused to work for Senator Kerry." If you sign on the dotted line, you will be pledging to "support and defend the constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic, and that I will bear true faith and allegience to the same." You also pledge to obey the lawful orders of the President of the United States. Consider this: your initial Military Service Obligation is for 8 years (usually 3 or 4 years of active service, then 4 years inactive reserves but available for call-up if they need your speciality). Thus you will be obligated to serve under the next president, Republican or Democrat or Other, and will be expected to do so just as cheerfully. The same goes for the officers appointed over you; you don't obey orders based on who you like or dislike. "For the past 8 months I have been a Bush Teamleader." DOD regulations and Air Force Instructions specifically prohibit active campaigning on the behalf of a partisan candidate or party. You will, however, be permitted to volunteer time in non-partisan GOTV or issue-specific campaigns in your off-duty time. Our military is designed to be apolitical for some very important reasons. The American people select their choice for leading the country (and the military) and we in the profession of arms accept the leadership and follow their guidance. I first entered the military in 1991 and served under GHW Bush, then Clinton, then Bush, and even with this second term I will (Lord willing) serve under at least one more president before I am eligible for retirement. So here is the question: Are you joining the Air Force to serve just President Bush, or are you joining the Air Force to serve the Constitution?

I've been in the AF for 5 years now and I would do it all over again. I entered with a peer group of 15 brand new RNs / Lieutenants, and collectively we have had some great experiences. I was in Germany for three years, one other lucky guy has been in Alaska, and others have seen other parts of the world. All are alive and well. Our nursing work environment is better, compared to the 'outside', according to our contractor, civil service, and direct-commission peers. We have enlisted medical technicians that can perform a wide variety of customarily RN duties (lab draws, IV insertions, some oral medication administration). In the ICU, where I currently work, the techs are an incredible force; the help bathe (some assertive techs will even accomplish the entire bath if it is a heavy charting night). Pay and benefits would be the same in both branches, how far you stretch you paycheck depends on where you live. The Navy appears to have bases in some expensive areas like Southern California, Virginia, etc. Contrast that with the largest Air Force hospital in San Antonio, where new homes in the 2000sqft range go for around $130,000. You are on the right track by narrowing down a choice to the military. I commend you.

Though the military does have some excellent benefits for education, you when considering whether to go active duty or reserves (which includes the Air National Guard), there is quite a bit to consider. While active duty service makes you eligible for tuition reimbursement of courses that you take, understand that you will be working 40+ hours a week, probably on a varied schedule. Once you are done with your service, though, the GI Bill (and the fact that you will be considered 'independent' for financial aid purposes (which otherwise requires you to be 26yrs old, married, an emancipated minor, etc) provides quite an advantage over a civilian. Long story short, consider all parts of the Air Force: Active, Reserves, and Guard. With all deference to AFRescueMedic, I disagree on the subject of hands-on patient care in the AF. With the current level of deployments, all company grade officer (Lieutenants and Captains) RNs, with VERY FEW exceptions, are now on notice that they will be practicing nursing in a forward area, which is very much hands-on. I work in an ICU in San Antonio and can personally attest to the level of hands-on care that I perform daily. In over 5 years of AF nursing experience, I have been hands-on, working shifts, for all but about 3 months of the time. 2 Years med-surg, 1 year ER, and now going on 2 years ICU. Though most of our bases have downsized their clinics, the staff from the Super Clinics are sent here to attend trauma training and refresher in preparation for deployment. We may have our share of 'clipboard nurses', but that won't be a concern for anyone until they have been in for several years...

My calender shows that I confirmed my choice for interview day/time on 22 September, and the deadline for applications was 15 September. That would have them mailing out the letters almost immediately after the deadline. Keep in mind that at that time the process involved interviewing with the VA first, and applying for the U after acceptance. With the changes in the program, and the 2 August deadline, I do not anticipate hearing anything for a while. I do remember that the interview choices were spread over several weeks. As I remember, the questions were general and dealt with such points as motivation for school, plans for making it through school, previous clinical experiences, how I deal with changes, to name a few of the topics. The general impression that I took away from the interview was that they had seen enough stats on paper to find me acceptable, and wanted to get to know the person behind and beyond the stats. Good luck and keep in touch! z

I'm putting out feelers to see who and how many are awaiting word of interviews at the University of Minnesota program. I am not anticipating a letter until sometime in September. I applied and interviewed last year, and made the alternate list. The program transitioned this year to being 'owned' more by the U of M, with the VA remaining as the main clinical site. From the school, the reasons were primarily financial (i.e. the VA was spending resources that they were unable to recoup, whereas the U of M could take over many functions and cover them out of their operating budget) and all very logical. The interview last year, as I remember, was straightforward and comfortable. Four of the instructors including course director, 10 questions, about 30 minutes in the chair, followed by an opportunity to meet a current student and chat (without faculty, so it is very open and relaxed.) Good luck to all!

debRN0417, The probability that your son will be in Iraq or Afghanistan in the near future is really random at this point. Once he is done with training he will arrive at his permanent duty station. It could be a large fixed hospital like Walter Reed in DC (where he is unlikely to see the desert), or he could be in an infantry unit in Texas (where he is likely to see the desert), at this point the only thing to do is send him care packages and wait. Final unit assignments sometimes aren't made until a troop arrives at a post and is inprocessing. Rumors and hopes will always be plentiful so please be patient. This may be more information than you might want, but the idea of a 'front line' has evaporated for all intents and purposes. A more realistic analogy would be to picture your local community/county/state with Army bases taking the place of community colleges and a few high schools, some large, some small. From those dispersed bases, the Army sends out patrols to stay visible and keep roads open, maintain (hopefully) friendly contact with locals, and facilitate the accomplishment of building and rebuilding projects. Medics are an integral part of all operations, right down to small unit patrols of a handfull of people and a few vehicles. Medics are also in larger field hospitals that take up acres of space, an area from which they might not venture very often during their tour. This all may be more information than you may want; sometimes less is more... Z

debRN017, New medics in the Army initially undergo 10 weeks of 'Health Care Specialist' training at Ft. Sam Houston, Texas. This course is a broad overview of the entire spectrum of Army health care, from routine clinic care to inpatient hospital care to battefield care and evacuation. At present the only civilian certification one receives from this course is EMT-Basic. I attended this course in December 1991. I have worked with recent graduates of the course as recent at Dec '02. The Army does offer LPN training, though normally the training for LPN is offered to active duty soldiers after completing at least a portion of their first enlistment. Reserve units, however, are common to send troops to LPN school as their initial training. Zenman (not to be confused with me) spoke about being a 91C, which is the previous designator for an LPN. The new code is 91WM6 (91-medically related field, W-hands on patient care designator, M6-LPN). In brief, with the training and experience of a basic 91W 'medic', you would need to complete an entire LPN program. If you attend the Army's LPN program, well, you would be an LPN. Check out the official Army LPN school page at: http://www.cs.amedd.army.mil/dns/m6/index.htm

The biggest difference between civilian nursing and Air Force nursing is the acceptance that service in the AF Nurse Corps is a lifestyle, not just a job. Being on the officer side of the house doesn't make life significantly different than the enlisted. I am a Captain in a duty section of 20 officers, most of which are Captains. When we have a mandatory event, I don't tap my collar and say, "no thanks, I'll be golfing". This lifestyle has nothing to do with the Officer's Club (I've been in one less than ten times in 4+ years) and more on knowing that when the phone rings, ignorance is not an option. Whether it's a civilian calling in sick and a shift that needs to be covered on your day off or a deployment next week to Butkrakistan you are obligated to answer the call. The best part about AF nursing is the med techs, known in AF as 4NOs, or 'Four en ohs', who initially undergo a year of academic and didactic training before reaching their first permanent duty assignment. For the most part these are some smart, aggresive, hard working people. In our ICU they are responsable for documenting I&O, VS, accomplishing lab draws (incl central line draws) and IV insertions, assisting the docs with intubation/extubation, and a host of other activities. They work with you, the RN, not just for you. Every shift I thank my lucky stars that I have a 4NO on my wing (and the majority of the time a tech and I have two patients together). Patient load in the AF is at par with the civilian side or below, in my experience. In some ways, though, nursing in the AF is much like civilian nursing. I live off base, and come on base usually only for my assigned shifts and other training (ACLS, TNCC, etc) or unit activities (monthly commander's brief, staff meeting). I fly when I go to visit family on leave. I wear a uniform (BDUs) to and from work and work in scrubs. Speaking of economics, some jobs pay more than the AF, some pay less. If it was all about money we would be... To Calfax- at Wilford Hall Medical Center is San Antonio, our cutting edge technology includes progress notes and MARs written on 8.5x11 bonded paper (no papyrus for us!). And unfortunately the hot tubs were nixed from the mobility pallets. In all honesty, the 'good old days' have been on hold for a while, and field conditions in the AF are essentially what I remember of my days in a MASH unit in Korea. Nothing compares to the Comfort or the Mercy! Hope these observations help in your decision making process

ceska2, I'm in the ICU at Wilford Hall Medical Center (the hospital on Lackland) and would be happy to help you on your trek. The advice to gain a year of critical care experience before joining is important as this allows the recruiting folks to bring you in as a 46N3E (46- generic designator for nursing, N-bedside nurse, 3-rough indicator of experience, in this case at least about one year, and E-critical care nurse). Without the 'E' identifier, coming straight in and straight to an ICU slot is difficult (I won't say impossible, but highly improbable). Following this route, you would normally be required to have served 2 years before being selected for school (it's an administrative detail that I can explain further later). Each year, usually in June, the AF selects candidates to attend CRNA school either here in SA or at the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences in Bethesda, Maryland. The application packet includes the standard transcripts/GPA, GRE scores, and copies of annual Officer Performance Reports. GPA and scores are roughly equivalent to what civilian schools require. Some years there is a long list of alternate selectees, and some years (like last) there is a 'Supplemental Call for Candidates' i.e. 'hey, we didn't get enough applications!'. Since I gather that you are already speaking with a Health Professions Recruiter, you might ask him to sponsor a trip to an AF hospital, hopefully here at Lackland, so that you may see first hand what we have to offer. At that time you can also speak with some CRNAs that have gone the AF sponsored route and other folks that are applying to school this year or next. If you decide to come straight in without outside critical care experience, your likely assignment will be on a traditional nursing floor, which is the norm in the AF due to our mission: caring for large numbers of casualties during wartime. Nothing sharpens your mass-cal skills like a very busy day on med-surg. If you scoff or giggle, then you haven't shared my experience, and I am speaking from experience on both points. Thus, med-surge experience is important, though not mandatory. If you start on floor you wouldn't expect to move to a unit for about 2 years. During those 2 years you will have the opportunity to accomplish TNCC, ACLS, PALS, etc free (though most likely on your 'off days'.. see my post under Air Force vs Civilian nursing for more info). You will also likely get a chance to travel to a very sunny location for about 3 months. If you have more questions, or are able to arrange a trip down, PM me and I'll help you and your recruiter set up a tour.

The essential difference between civilian nursing and Air Force nursing is the fundamental understanding that you are choosing to adopt a lifestyle, not just a job. I cannot emphasize this point enough. Pros of AF nursing: You may have experiences that few others will have. In my AF career I have lived in Germany for 3 years, flown a patient with one other nurse for 8 hours alone on an empty C-5 cargo plane chartered just for our patient, I have studied Russian in Russia for a month while receiving full pay, and I have packed and shipped by professional movers during every move. When we had our baby, our co-pay for the entire pregnancy and delivery was a whopping $0. From peers that have practiced in civilian ICUs, they relate that our pace is much more tolerable, and have have more help that come in the form of our medical technicians, who can accomplish many functions reserved for RNs otherwise (including lab draws, IV insertions, central line draws, Cons of AF nursing (depending on our outlook): You may have experiences that few others will have. Scheduling can become hectic, and you have limited ability to 'turn down' a shift or adjust your schedule in a pinch. We don't have the ability to 'call in' if you have a BBQ/party/mental health day at the last minute. You will be ready to deploy overseas in support of military operations, and as such you will become familiar with operating a 9mm handgun, putting on chemical protection gear, and packing 3 months of uniforms, toiletries, and personal effects into 2 duffel bags. You may receive an assignment to a floor that you don't want, but you will be expected to become proficient and perform safely before being moved to another section. With few exceptions, AF nurses begin with a medical-surgical position. This is because one of our essential functions, as nurses, is to care for large numbers of patients and med-surg (or similiar) is the best way to build these skills. The hours-worked question can vary. My personal experience, based on 4.5+ years (and still counting) of active duty AF nursing in acute care (med-surg, ER, ICU) is that we work 7 12-hour shifts every two weeks. We take shifts off for federal holidays (?8/year?) and extra 'family days', though in my current assignment the majority of these holidays aren't scheduled in advance, instead I'm called off 3-4 hours before shift due to low census. When we have mandatory training (ACLS, training for deployment, etc) that is factored in and takes the place of bedside work. Some assignments are better than others for ability to do non-bedside activities on 'duty time'. In my previous assignment, I attended TNCC, ACLS, PALS, and a host of other training on duty time. In my present unit, ACLS is it, all others in my off time. All, however, are free. Hours worked in clinic positions are whole other ballgame; I'm not qualified to advise. You mentioned that you are still in school- I went to school on an ROTC scholarship, which was quite nice. Depending on where you are at geographically and year (fresh/soph/etc) and could transfer, this option is worth looking into. You should consider visiting a base with a good-sized hospital for a few days. This can be arranged through a 'Health Professions Recruiter', and would offer some opportunities to see firsthand what we do in the AF. The point to remember is that accepting a commission in the AF is an understanding that you will be adopting a lifestyle, not just a job. Many of us enjoy the honor. PM me if you have more questions...

If you are considering both, make it known to both recruiters that you would like to visit an active hospital for an extended weekend. They have funds for just such trips, though I can't guarantee whether you will have much of a choice of which base or method of travel (drive vs. fly). They will put you up on base, show you the exchange (shopping center), the fitness facilities, and usually the bowling alley (oh joy!). On your trip ask to speak with several people both with the recruiters listening in and without; this can usually be accomplished by letting it known that you want to spend a night on the town with some new lieutenants (AF) or ensigns (Navy). Remember that your base pay and benefits will be equal no matter in which branch you serve, though your housing money will vary depending on where you are assigned (i.e. you get more money for housing in San Diego than San Antonio). Speaking of which, if you have your heart set on a particular base or area of the country, don't be afraid to play smart poker and hold out for a week or so as the recruiter badgers the assignment folks. Be honest, be polite, be professional, and remember that they are as interested in signing you up as you are in getting your base of choice. Some bases can take 'one more' and some can't. I am in the AF, and we usually wait a year before deploying brand-new nurses. Of my year group (entered in '99) some peers have done two desert rotations (from 3-7 months) and some haven't done any. Some folks have seen the world and some have seen Texas. Either way, if it is adventure and travel you seek, give either a try and make the most of the opportunities that you find.

My wife and I returned from a 3 year tour in Germany at Landstuhl in Dec '02. We were both fresh out of nursing school; I was military, she wasn't. Highlights of our personal experience related to your question: The hiring officials were strict about having one year of experience before her application for a position was considered. She gained experience by volunteering through the Red Cross and working in a contract position in the Walk-In clinic. Long, long, story short: expect to have one year of experience before the Army will hire you. The CPOL website mentioned before is the best first step. Until you know where your husband will be stationed, your efforts will be best directed towards completing an on-line resume or 'Resumix' that satisfies the Army. Per my wife, this can be somewhat frustrating. Advice: in the Knowledge/Skills/Attributes section, some folks related better success by typing in the glossary from their nursing textbook, etc. This was due to word matching between the job description submitted by the particular ward/clinic and all resumes in the system. More words, more matches. There are three main Army hospitals in Germany (Landstuhl, Wurzburg, and Heidelburg) with many clinics. Openings were difficult to find before '02... the additional money flowing into the DOD and the increased patient load at Landstuhl may have given reason to add nurses, though there are Reservists activated to beef up staffing. Once you get orders and know to which post your husband will be assigned you can narrow down application to a particular medical facility. Keep in mind that Germany isn't small and the bases are not all together. Depending on your husband's MOS, somewhere in the Kaiserslautern Military Community or Baumholder would be best for employment at Landstuhl. I'm not that familiar with Wurzburg or Heidelburg. Hope this helps. Feel free to PM with any other questions.

As with everything, check the fine print. On my Perkins paperwork, the fine print is in our favor 100%. My Perkins promissary note states that the loan is forgiven for work as a nurse, over a period of about 5 years, with no specifics on where I practice, as long as it is full time. The 'underserved' areas, on my Perkins note, pertain to social work/social services type grads. There are also provisions to forgive the loan for polic officers, etc. so there is quite a bit of fine print. Ask to read over the promissary note before signing, as that is the definitive answer.

Don't forget the best part about the application process... they let you apply again next year, it's not single elimination. I received my 'thank you for applying...' letter and was a bit saddened, too. And then I remembered why I applied: because I wanted to be a CRNA someday. Not tomorrow, but when the time was right. And until that time we'll just be the best ICU nurses that we can be, and gaining experience while we're at it. Keep your chin up and good luck in December... dress warm!