grad*student

I think you should practice your negotiation skills w/ him. If he declines, nothing lost. The terms he's presented right now are not favorable. Make a case for what you want, and you will build your confidence for future job offers.

You're right, it doesn't matter, but it's interesting. I think the poster is a med student, resident, or new physician.

let me guess -- you're not a nurse.

This question is also on the NP page -- about 400 responses or so. You should go through that thread.

Yes, all MN/MSN's (or even the old BS degrees) who are NP's will be permitted to continue practicing after the cut-off. This is why I chose the MN route this year -- it was the last year my school offered it!! After 2015 or so, a DNP will be required for entry into the field (& those who are already in, remain in).

The advice I've received by practicing NP's is to obtain as much hospital bedside experience as possible. This has been STRONGLY emphasized to me, so in taking their advice, I'm returning to the bedside to work 24hrs/wk throughout school. My experience: I had two years in med-surg & a year in ICU prior to moving into research. I worked as a research nurse for 2 years, but it pulled me from the bedside. I'm returning in order to regain those skills & learn all I can about patients with diseases relevant to my future field -- in order to understand what they go through, how they're diagnosed & treated, etc... I'm returning w/ a different perspective than I had immediately out of nursing school. I've worked w/ NP's who needed to take RN positions first prior to being competitive for NP jobs. The NP's I currently work w/ have told me that they won't hire an NP who doesn't have RN experience. Also, I've met actual NP's who cannot find positions, and have had to first work as RN's to gain the skills and become competitive for NP jobs. In other words, many employers want to see that NPs are also strong clinically (evidenced by prior work as an RN). I should probably add that the NPs I work w/ are cardiology hospitalists. The needs for a strong clinical experience are probably very different if you want a teaching/educational or managerial position. Then again, I personally would hate to have an instructor, manager, or other resource who doesn't have real-world experience as a nurse. You can really tell who has and hasn't worked with pts at the bedside. Just my opinion.

She's currently retired, but worked for more than 30 years at the bedside. She's a diploma trained RN, I'm a BSN. My mother is more of a nurse than I'll ever be, she was and is absolutely awesome. I turned to her so many times w/ questions about how things should be done or situations handled. A few nurses who worked w/ my Mom have told me that she was/is absolutely The Best, a true professional. She never misses a vein, she can "sense" when something is wrong when entering a pt's room (Benner's "expert" nurse), and on top of doing all that's required by us nurses in just doing our jobs, she always groomed/bathed and comforted her patients in order to make them feel cared for. I never had time to braid my patient's hair, but my mother would do these little extra things for patients. She feels that the field of nursing has changed dramatically in the last 10 years, in that nurses no longer have time to provide the care patients really need, but that's another story... I can't stand any of these diploma vs. ADN vs. BSN debates. It's all just a bunch of garbage. I'm posting to this forum just to get this off my chest, and to brag about my mother. My mother's training was more rigorous than mine, though she didn't end up w/ a bachelor's (ex. she would attend some classes w/ the med students in her program, while BSN programs are strictly taught by nursing faculty who have replaced practical instruction w/ ridiculous "theory"; she witnessed real autopsies, while I dissected a cat and a few other animals in pre-req, etc...). And the type of nurse one becomes really depends on personal characteristics, like compassion, attitude, character, intelligence, etc... Ok, thanks for listening.

Izzy, I felt the exact same way as you. Since I already had a BS in Biology & minor in Chemistry, I knew how shallow the nursing classes truly were. In my case, I've chosen the most rigorously scientific nursing graduate program in my geographical area. I am supplementing the required coursework w/ a few extra science courses. All are taught by PhD's w/in their respective scientific fields & engaged in research, which is important to me. Point is, you can make grad school as rigorous & science focused as you choose in the MN/NP route. That said, if you have a choice (ie. if you're still young & have the time, finances, and personal freedom), Med School would probably be your best option. If I could do it all over again, it would have been my choice. Since I now have a child, the NP program made more sense. In my region the PA did not make sense (ie. only one program to choose from), since the coursework is actually less difficult than that offered by the nursing program. Also, NPs in my area are completely independent of MDs, unlike PAs. So I felt that becoming a PA would send me back a step. Your area may be different.

Children's is a great place to work. I've been here for a year, and am very impressed by the quality of care & environment. Fantastic hospital and employer.

little more than zilch your gpa is stellar, they'll notice, don't worry

I say the second. From what NPs tell me, the reputation of a school is essentially of no consequence in the work place. It's also of little issue to me personally, though (ie. I will be going to a reputable school, but that's not why I chose the program). The other issues you mention seem much more important. A factor that influenced my decision was the program coursework involved -- in fact, I made my school decision almost exclusively on this. I want to enjoy and find value in the coursework. We need to love the process, not just the end result, since schooling is 2-4 years of our lives. Also, enjoying coursework increases motivation and personal investment. And close to home, cheaper, good clinicals -- is it really that much of a dilemma for you?

Also wanted to add that you will have an advantage over other MPH's, in that you are already a nurse/clinician. Many do not have a clinical background.

A lot of cool public health jobs that focus on international projects in my area require MPH degrees. However, there is a lot of competition & more graduates than jobs here. I don't think a MSN is that valuable without a clinical focus, and NP licensure is mostly unrecognized internationally. I also want to do public health, but feel that the lack of an MPH may be a barrier -- I can already do international health w/ just an RN licensure, but the NP won't mean anything overseas. Anyway, it seems to me that the MPH should be your primary focus, with an MSN as a secondary goal if it's easy to tack on.

Since you're only 24 & don't have kids or other ties right now, and b/c you still have the motivation to do more schooling, why NOT just finish the DNP? Go for it.

Maybe it doesn't garner more respect b/c there are misconceptions about the field, but regardless, it probably makes him a better chiropractor!

It is very relevant to MY future practice as an NP. In addition to these, of course I will have all the nursing classes that focus on clinical management. Of course these classes would not be relevant for a non-ID NP. I presented this as an example. I've known of genetic nurses who are more heavily prepared in their respective sciences, or cardiology NP that focus in their area -- and yes, understanding basic science can make a better clinician in certain types of fields.

It doesn't really seem "above and beyond" for the school to which I've applied. A lot of the students are taking advanced science coursework within their area of interest. The classes I'll be taking are taken by graduate students, most of them pursuing PhD's within their respective fields. Of course I won't progress to the same level of sophistication as the PhD students, since I'm just taking the intro graduate level classes, but I'll learn essentials for my chosen field. I have already taken one of the physiology courses with the dental students (required by my program), and realized that it mirrors the medical school curriculum -- I even used a USMLE study guide during the class, which was more shallow than the actual coursework (thus, I feel that the class must be comparable to that taken by med students). Three of my classes have a medical focus (the "medical" bacteriology, virology, mycology/parasitology combined courses). The school is UW Seattle. The coursework is mostly required for my program. We have some flexibility in designing our studies with our advisor. I've added only 2 science courses, immunology and mycology/parasitology, but I had these in undergrad work. I will probably add a few from the school of Public Health. My initial point was that we nurses have the freedom to pursue any coursework we wish, and that there are no barriers. An advanced nursing program really offers the freedom to tailor studies to your particular interests -- if that includes more of the science foundational classes, then you are free to take them! Graduate school differs from undergrad in that you have a lot more control over the process. You're more responsible for what you will learn & know as a professional.

I agree with you. The NP program should be as scientifically rigorous as med school. Pharmacy school has already gone that route, ie. students taking the same medical coursework the first 2 years for the PharmD programs. The residency after medical school is really what makes a doctor. The coursework is foundational, however -- and I think it should be required for advanced practice as a prescribing nurse. The DNP programs are not making these types of changes -- rather, the focus is on leadership, interpretation/utilization of research (nursing and medical), and more clinical hours. I don't really see any reason to get the DNP degree over a Master's, other than more clinical time (the rest may be a lot of BS).

Burn-out. Feeling manipulated by patients, abused by the healthcare system, and being worked to the bone. We all go through that "shock" as new grads, but then come to see the other side as time goes on...

Ok, back to the main topic. I have undergrad degrees in Biology & Nursing, with a minor in Chemistry. In my NP graduate program, I will be taking the following graduate-level science courses: immunology, bacteriology, virology, parasitology/mycology, two physiology classes, two pharmacology courses, epidemiology, and pathophysiology. Most of these will be taught outside of the nursing school & by PhD's within their respective fields. Many of these are within the school of medicine. My clinicals will be arranged with both MDs and NPs within the community. Though my coursework will not be the equivalent of medical school, since it is specialized for one field (infectious diseases) & includes nursing theory/education in addition to science courses, I feel my schooling will well-prepare me for future work as an NP. My background already includes work in both bench research (molecular work) & clinical/translational research. Clinically, I've worked in med-surg and ICU settings. A lot of nurses enter graduate school with skill sets comparable to med students, and I think there is plenty of room for both disciplines & types of training w/in our healthcare system. Patients only benefit through this type of diversity. Nurses are free to take as many science classes as we wish, just find a program that complements your interests.

A man jumped out of his 5th floor window at Harborview yesterday. He's in critical condition. Be prepared to deal with lots of this kind of drama.

Would I change jobs? Yes. I'm in exactly your situation, and have resigned a flexible, well-paying job in research to return to the bedside simply for the tuition reimbursement benefit. Should you change jobs? Not if you are required to work 36hrs during school to get the money. That's way too much. I'm working 24 hrs/wk max, and am still wondering if I can do it.

My considerations: 1) how I feel on the campus -- is it a place I will enjoy attending for the next several years? do I like the professors, students, and general atmosphere? 2) quality of program -- the types of classes that are offered (I wanted lots of hard sciences outside of the nursing school, and less nursing theory), national ratings/reputation (in case I want a PhD later, and also to be competitive for hiring), lots of clinical experiences w/ the types of settings applicable to my focal area 3) cost 4) proximity to home, needs to fit in with work/life schedule (I have a child)

where do you live? just curious what it's like in other wa areas...

MSN/MN's will likely be grandfathered in and NOT have to get the DNP by 2015. That's why I chose the MN route. If I decide to get a doctorate, it will be in something else (ex. hard science or public health). Anyway, DNP is not equivalent to a PhD.