As basic decency slips away....We watch them die and do nothing.........

Dang man... what about a LIFEGUARD?

This is San Francisco Bay ... not a swimming pool. Lifeguards???

OP, are you saying the "basic decency" of the bystanders, including firefighters, has slipped away?

Not disagreeing with your point, but actively drowning individuals will fight a lifeguard as hard as I've seen anybody fight. Their body wants air, and they'll get it by any means necessary.

I absolutely agree. Letting them get too tired to fight or maybe even lose consciousness is unfortunately going to be a better outcome for both victim and rescuer.

Also, what is the likelyhood that this man could have been rescued just to turn around and walk back in. I have seen jumpers cry for help after they hit the water. I dont think this was a cry for help. Those that want to commit suicide tend to get it done.

This is San Francisco Bay ... not a swimming pool. Lifeguards???

There are lifeguards for the ocean......

I dont think this was a cry for help.

We'll never know, will we? The whole thing is tragic........

We'll never know, will we? The whole thing is tragic........

Any suicide is tragic if they are crying for help or just ready to end it.

The article doesn't state anything about basic decency slipping away so I am assuming you are thinking the basic decency of those who were present is slipping away? This is your addition to the article, correct?

I believe this has nothing to do with decency. It appears to me to be rescuers and bystanders using basic common sense. Common sense tells me this is a bad situation they were not prepared for and unable to respond to. Did they want to? I have no doubt they did. Firemen are alot like nurses in that they WANT to help people. That is the draw to the job. Kamikazee missions are not part of the job.

I agree with some of your points, FF.

Any suicide is tragic if they are crying for help or just ready to end it.

The article doesn't state anything about basic decency slipping away so I am assuming you are thinking the basic decency of those who were present is slipping away? This is your addition to the article, correct?

I believe this has nothing to do with decency. It appears to me to be rescuers and bystanders using basic common sense. Common sense tells me this is a bad situation they were not prepared for and unable to respond to. Did they want to? I have no doubt they did. Firemen are alot like nurses in that they WANT to help people. That is the draw to the job. Kamikazee missions are not part of the job.

I'm wondering...was the area populated before he made his attempt? (Unfortunately,successfully.) But to me, if there were people there to witness, this sounds more like a cry for help rather than a true desire to die. Especially since, per the article, he kept looking back at the crowd. I understand the authorities' point, and even the citizens...but this is pure tragedy. I'm sorry, but if I had been there, I pray I would have had the courage to atleast try.

This was not a "kamikaze" mission, and the Fire Department doesn't seem to think it was either since they have since changed their policy to allow untrained rescuers to intervene in similar situations.

The furthest this individual was from shore was 50 yards. There was no current, only tide. People with mental illness or in emotional distress can be unpredictable, although if we are going to say that from now on, nobody is expected to risk bodily harm when dealing with these people, then we'd have to do away with Nures, Doctors, Social Workers, Mental Health Counselors, Police Officers, Teachers, Firefighters, etc.

Sounds like something needs to happen with the budget so these rescuers can actually do some rescuing. Who wants to watch someone die, suicidal or not? These men need gear, what if it had been an accidental fall of a child? They need to get the training and gear needed to properly do their job in any situation. I couldn't imagine watching someone die, because the hospital budget didn't cover a crash cart and defibrillator.

This was not a "kamikaze" mission, and the Fire Department doesn't seem to think it was either since they have since changed their policy to allow untrained rescuers to intervene in similar situations.

The furthest this individual was from shore was 50 yards. There was no current, only tide. People with mental illness or in emotional distress can be unpredictable, although if we are going to say that from now on, nobody is expected to risk bodily harm when dealing with these people, then we'd have to do away with Nures, Doctors, Social Workers, Mental Health Counselors, Police Officers, Teachers, Firefighters, etc.

The article stated they are going to retrain, re-equip, and allow land based water rescues at their discretion (the incident commander) As a nurse, I am not doing anything outside of my scope of practice much the same as this FD on scene. I do know that going into 50 degree water trying to pull an unpredictable 280lb 6'3 man that wants to die, without a wetsuit, safety ropes and other misc safety gear is gonna be a lose-lose. They clearly had none of that gear.

I do put myself in harms way, risking bodily harm, but only with proper training and equipment. Its a calculated risk. Freelancers and cowboys don't do well in these situations and are highly discouraged. These rescuers were faced with something outside of their scope of practice, they weren't trained for and professionally forbid from doing. They calculated the risk and came up with the right answer that day. It was tragic, but for only one victim and not several.

BTW, I didnt read anywhere that he was 50yds out with tide only, no currents. I don't think that would change anything though.

Budget cuts that mean they had no training or gear(as stated in the article) for a rescue that was in a bay that is known for cold temps and swift currents. Rescuing a man that is comitting suicide is not the same as a rescue of a normal drowing victim.

1.Without any gear, that is going to be difficult considering the body of water temps and currents. No floatation device and no rope to tie off is a very foolish thing to attempt.

2.A man committing suicide is likely to want to take you down with him or fight you, more than an already difficult drowning type rescue. He is trying to die!

3.The bystanders also saw a real the danger in this. It appears to be much more than wading out and retrieving him.

4.I am (along with my Fire Dept engine co. of course) the boat crew for my city for the Mississippi area we cover. No gear, cold swift water, and a suicidal victim equals a likely tragedy for all involved.

5.My experience from news articles\TV reporters that cover incidents I have been involved in, has been that they are very inacurate and tend to leave out important details that make for more drama. Thats as nice as I can put this. We are likely not hearing anything near the full story here.

Thanks for enlightening me.... still sad all the way around.