Very angry

Chad_KY_SRNA · Apr 12, 2005

That guy is stupid and makes people wonder about the nurses that care for them. He needs his butt whooped!

SmilingBluEyes · Apr 12, 2005

I would NEVER judge the male nursing profession on the acts of depraved and evil individuals such as this one. I am sorry he was allowed to get away w/this TWICE. That makes me as angry as the fact he assaulted anyone in the first place. It is SICK!!!!

ryanfocker · Apr 12, 2005

if this person has not been arrested labman, it is YOUR responsibility to contact the authorities. do not wait for somebody else to make this decision. let me explain.

this past summer, i was a counselor at summer camp for the 15-16 year olds. one day, two of my kids explained a cook was coming on to them in an extremely inappropriate way. i told my boss, the number 2 guy at the camp. apparently i didn't explain the severity properly and the guy wasn't fired; apparently, telling my boss that the cook asked to see their memberes wasn't enough. after a week or so of me wondering why the guy wasn't fired i angrily went to the owner of camp, i was furious. apparently the owner hadn't gotten the whole story, as soon as he did, the piece of filth was fired and authorities contacted.

this whole time i wonder to myself, what if a kid had been molested because i sat on my hands and didn't press the issue. i will always press the issue from now on.

thats why, lab man, you need to press it hard. i understand how furious you are. it bothers me that i have to breathe the same air as people like this. i hope there is a special hell for these people.

ryanfocker · Apr 12, 2005

one more quick story to share in a similar vane:

i am currently a home health aid(in nursing school) for a 21 year old quadropolegic. yesterday morning i locked myself out, and he was laying in bed, not in his chair. so i had to walk to the managers office.

let me add a few things, i was barefoot, in pj's, and in WEST PHILADELPHIA. not a nice place, bums, broken bottle's, dog poop, crack head's....the works. so i walk four blocks. and the mangers WON'T GIVE ME THE KEYS, cuz i'm not on the lease. i asked to speak to a boss, one comes back, i say "i am the nurse for a man who can't use his arms and legs; i am the ONE PERSON who takes care of him, if you don't let me in, HE WILL DIE".............................here the kicker..............he says "yeah, but not TODAY"

bravo, applause, you're officially a minion of the devil.

so i argue i bit more, very close to going postal, and they eventually give me the keys, and the keys don't work so i eventually break a window and crawl in. luckily, my patient didn't break my balls, i wasn't in the mood.

overall it was kinda funny me walking around barefoot and all. some bum almost asked me for change, then saw i was barefoot and stopped mid breath. i shot him the scariest look this side of Sin City.

mattsmom81 · Apr 12, 2005

What I am reading here is simply a lot of hearsay, and judging based on gossip, which is wrong IMHO. ONLY the people directly involved/witness have the information to give to authorities. These people have a duty to report. I don't report nor repeat hearsay..to me thats simply evil gossip.

Stuff like this ruins lives and we should be absolutely certain before repeating it, IMHO.

Lawnurse · Apr 12, 2005

What I am reading here is simply a lot of hearsay, and judging based on gossip, which is wrong IMHO. ONLY the people directly involved/witness have the information to give to authorities. .

No, catagorically wrong. Hearsay is used in law enforcement all the time. "Hearsay" is only banned in the actual court of law when it is used to prove the truth of a matter, and there are almost 30 exceptions to that rule (literally).

The standard for nurses reporting sexual abuse is "good faith." Not reasonable suspicion, not clear and convincing evidence, not beyond a reasonable doubt. Merely good faith. I believe this is the *lowest* requirement in all of law enforcement. If there is a lower burden, please let me know.

If you report what you know, the police will conduct in investigation - not an arrest, not a prosecution, not a death sentence. The police then find out if this "hearsay" (although I think the correct term is 'report' or 'allegation') is based in fact. Only THEN will they make an arrest, indictment, etc. The investigation (and even grand jury if it comes to that) is confidential.

If someone honestly (in good faith) believes that that this CNA was fired for sexually abusing a patient, and is under the belief that it has not been reported (not that you said this - i'm referring to the hypothetical) that person is passively allowing this man to go out and do this again. Does that seem like a good idea?

Are you proposing that if the people directly involved don't go to the authorities, then the perpetrator should be allowed to get away with the crime?

labman · Apr 12, 2005

Sorry I am not good at writing clear when I am mad. The guy is caught. I think a nurse came in middle of his thing. He is long gone. On all the television camera and all the news stations for a while. I live in a different town so I didn't hear about it for a while. I just hope he never works in anyform of health care again in his whole life!!!!

dazzle256 · Apr 12, 2005

What I am reading here is simply a lot of hearsay, and judging based on gossip, which is wrong IMHO. ONLY the people directly involved/witness have the information to give to authorities. These people have a duty to report. I don't report nor repeat hearsay..to me thats simply evil gossip.
Stuff like this ruins lives and we should be absolutely certain before repeating it, IMHO.

I agree with you mattsmom and thats exactly what went through my mind. I've seen that kind of thing ruin peoples lifes.

Lawnurse · Apr 12, 2005

I agree with you mattsmom and thats exactly what went through my mind. I've seen that kind of thing ruin peoples lifes.

I have, too (not in health care - in the education system).

However, our justice system is set up so that 10 guilty people would go free before 1 innocent person would be convicted. Ergo, some innocent people will suffer in the process.

Anyway, none of that changes the good-faith requirement for reporting suspected abuse.

mattsmom81 · Apr 12, 2005

I have no legal requirement to report gossip, nor will I. I'm not going to argue legalese either. If I witness abuse personally, or the patient gives me reason to suspect, then I am mandated to report. But there's enough vindictive tattletaling out there already and I refuse to add to it.

dazzle256 · Apr 12, 2005

I have, too (not in health care - in the education system).
However, our justice system is set up so that 10 guilty people would go free before 1 innocent person would be convicted. Ergo, some innocent people will suffer in the process.
Anyway, none of that changes the good-faith requirement for reporting suspected abuse.

I agree with you there. It should definitely be reported but maybe thats as far as it should go.

I'm a big believer that a person is innocent until proven guilty. We had a case in a near by hospital where a male nurse was convicted lost his liecense and sent to jail because a patient said he malested her. He claims he's innocent, the female pt was a tele pt and no changes in the EKG when this supposedly happened. Didn't matter in the county I live in guilty until proven innocent. So basically he lost everything on her word alone.

Another case very similar is happening to a friend of ours that is a teacher. This man is being convicted on the word of a 14 year old girl. This young girl has a hx of mental illness and I know this man being accused. In my heart I don't think he did it. He lost his job spent 3 mos in jail and is out on bail now until his trial in July.

When I was in the military two female recruits reported a male instructor of touching them inappropriately... he was busted in rank and dishonorably discharged. One of the girls later stated she lied... little late. His reputation and marriage and career were ruined.

I had a friend about 10 years ago... single mom. Dad in jail supposedly for molesting the daughter. After knowing her for a while she opened up and said what happened. The husband confided in a friend that he had a dream about the daughter. Was sent to prison. Now as sick as that may sound he never touched the girl but was sent to prison. Mom got a lot of special privlidges at work that no one knew about but me (I didn't work with her). Longer story then that.....but thats it in a nutshell.

Look what happened in the 80's with the childcare center in North Carolina. I really don't think once all the evidence was laid out anything ever happened.

The sad thing about all this is......I believe abuse really does happen. What really gets me though its almost like a witch hunt here in some places. If I was the mother of an abused child or an abused child myself.... I'd me just as angry at the people wrongly reporting it as to the person commiting the crime. Bottom line the system may be set up that 10 guilty people get sent free rather then 1 innocent person be convicted but it sure doesn't work that way. I think its terribly sad.