trudeyRN

Legal and ethical are two different constructs. There are many things a nurse does based on ethics. Care of self is put on the same level of importance as care of others (per ANA); if you think about it, failing to care for yourself (say doing mouth to mouth with no guard), you may later not be able to care for others. Not crossing over into other people's job descriptions (EMT) is important. But ethically, I'd want to do what I could safely do ( safe for me/safe for the person who needs help). So we are at a bar, I would have to weigh out the potential for poor judgement vs. a person who needs help now. Love this question, because it does have a number of layers, beyond what was apparent from the OP. And yes, I know people get in legal dutch all the time over things they felt ethically compelled to do, that somehow went wrong and ended up causing legal ramifications.

I'm all for collaboration and helping those who help themselves. Doing both elevates the profession: collaborate rather than competitive, a hand up for the person who does take the initiative to get it together to become competent is fine. Even with patients, though, we never want to enable (and that can be a fine line that's hard to see). Enabling leads to reduced functioning, in patients and in nursing students- not the end we want to work toward. I would not consider it kind, helpful or good for the profession to carry someone who's just plain not taking initiative. Someone on this thread said "you can't carry her through NCLEX", and I think that's probably true. What if on some outside chance your group actually achieved that somehow? She got through on your good graces-what then? My guess is a person who is in the habit of not taking care of the details and not showing up on time is not going to be good for patient care. If, as some are suggesting, she would use help to develop better habits/work ethics, then it could work. Another way to think of it, day to day it can feel like we are just trying to make it through (the next test, graduation, NCLEX), but you are also trying to develop yourselves as the best nurses you can be. Preserving that is also "right" because it works in favor of patient care. Offering a hand to other students has to be balanced with learning as much as you can while you are in school.

I can see this coming down the pike: me getting branded as not social. In truth, the stimulation of hospital cafeterias during meal times does me in. I like small scale socialization. Should probably do some more "exposure therapy" to the feeding frenzy so I don't get designated as odd girl out (after graduation). Oh heck, who am I kidding...

I've only ever been given ativan for rest prior to surgery. I didn't take it since I hate not being "with it". As for anesthesiology, no I didn't "bite the bullet", but I have to confess being put under was one of my big anxieties about that procedure. Yup, guess I am a tightly wound control freak. My motto has always been "be alert, the world needs more lerts". Seriously, when anxiety is an impediment, it can make sense to work with a doctor because some people can be helped by medication. Can mean the difference between functioning and not.

Trying to learn auscultation, I assumed I might have a hearing impairment I hadn't known about before nursing school. I was immediately panicked that I might not be able to perform (if nothing else, a nurse must be capable of assessment). My instructor borrowed a steth with electronic amplification. To my surprise, this was much worse! Turns out my hearing is a little too good, and blocking external ambient noise was the issue (corrected by better ear pieces). So for a brief time I worried about this. I'm glad you are addressing it because it occurs to me there could be many excellent nurses/aspiring nurses who need this to achieve their potential. Also- shout out for neurodiversity . I'm a former teacher of students on the spectrum. As a group and as individuals, I really appreciated their take on things.

Still a student and have not chosen a focus area yet, but have loved all my OR observation experiences. OR nurses as a group seem to be excellent teachers. Thank you for these tips

I think the take home from all of this could be "individual results may vary". Work with your doc to figure out what does. I can really understand though the desire to bounce this off others, not for medical advice (as we are all required not to be giving, and people seem not to be doing that), but just to know other peoples' personal experiences. And toward the goal of not stigmatizing people who get treated for mental illness, this helps that people are willing to share. I have dealt with anxiety but not to the degree where I sought treatment. "Round 2" of the ADN program coming up, so you never know , I could be right there with you

It is not inappropriate to stand up for yourself, but how you do that can determine whether you achieve your desired goal (respect). It's possible that many peoples' first gut reaction might be to want to take the guy down a peg. And it may have felt momentarily gratifying to say/ do what you did. In the long run I think the people who are suggesting to give a blank and non-flinching stare, lowering your voice, stating your refusal to be spoken to that way in a calm, no nonsense tone, or simply walking away from the rant could have been much more effective. Telling him his behavior (yelling-which is obviously unprofessional) was not professional is stating the obvious. Let his behavior state that, you don't need to join him in the mud. I very much agree that in cases of disrespectful behavior you should stand up for yourself. I'm just going to put out there, in cases where I feel moved to yelling over someone (has happened in other settings, not work) I tend to sound less in control and I'm sure I get less respect when I let that fly. The more control you have of your own responses the more power you have in that situation.

This reflects what pretty much everyone has already said, but when I read "mundane questions" and "lack critical thinking" my first thought was they are probably nurses with a healthy respect of scope of practice and and a smart inclination to protect their license. They have thought critically know what is required next is doctor's orders (even as they possibly know what the solution will be).

It can be surprising and hurtful when people say stuff like that, but you have to realize it says more about him than it does about you. Same goes for people who offer the "grow a thicker skin" attitude when you clearly are asking for support. I know it would be preferable to have the girlfriend's father be supportive, but what I think this says is he is lacking in the ability to do that. People who take that stance are generally still sore from whatever boot in the butt elevated them into adulthood (in their way of thinking that's how it works). I am always glad to see guys entering the profession. Individuals all have something different to offer; if we were to exclude males, we'd be missing out on many great nurses. The drive you show to do what you need to do academically is great. I am also a student. I can't tell you how many people I see limping along, doing what they need to do to pass but not much more. As technical as this profession is, we need people male and female who are interested in doing their best work for the benefit of patients. You are smart to seek out positive people who can support your interest in this. Age does make ignoring the rest easier. The "skin will grow thicker" (as in not caring what people think).

I feel like I'm in the same place. I know you are looking for people who have longer perspective who can tell you this is normal and you will get there. I will start my third semester this fall, so I don't have a work history to base this on. I too think if one patient is this hard, how will I ever handle 4, 6 (or whatever the ratio happens to be)? And charting, it is unnerving. Smart to know it has implications beyond just typing and checking off boxes. I look forward to the day when I can do that with less hesitancy. I get the impression this is very normal. Feeling dumb becomes the norm, even the grading system (much different from the prereq grades, right?) seems stacked against us feeling smart. The purpose of that (as near as I can tell) is as much as you do know and as hard as you work, there is always more you could know. We will get to a place where we aren't doubting our every move, but if you read through the threads, people are considered a "new nurse" for a long time. And every time you change jobs, you are "new" (read: have the chance to feel dumb again). It doesn't mean you aren't where you are supposed to be (as in academically or as a choice of career). What it means to me is there is always a lot more you can know. I think the trick is to get comfortable with not knowing everything and realizing you are learning more than you think. Experience will help, but there is always the chance to learn more. I would be more worried about you if you said you never felt dumb and had all the answers :)

There may be some legal or policy and procedure manual that says somewhere there needs to be intent, but I don't believe all definitions of abuse come to that same conclusion. Many define abuse as misuse or mistreatment. I think one concept that is probably relevant is that the target of whatever type of abuse finds it hard or impossible to escape the behavior they are being abused by. In this case feelings of care, moral duty, familial relationship or job description are the factors that bind the target to the person exhibiting abusive behavior. Whether the person doing it knows what they are doing or not, the issue here is the effect it has on others. Their intent may be as simple as doing whatever they need to do to avoid something they don't want but something that others have determined that they need: prevention of elopement, wound care, life saving medical care that someone has determined it is legal to give them even if they are refusing. I too would be very interested to hear how you would define this.

I have seen this (a friend caring for an abusive family member). We naturally think about the vulnerability created by age (and yes, that's very real). This points out the vulnerability to abuse created in some cases by caring.

As a former teacher, people "on the spectrum" were some of my favorite students. A common dislike of fire drills, pep rallies and school vacation may have been at the root of this affinity. I was reading up on migraines about fMRI studies that demonstrated the brains of people who have autism (as well as migraine sufferers- my reason to dislike firedrills) are excited by patterns and thrown off by odd stuff that comes out of left field. So yes, any hospital stay or trip to the ER will be filled with random stuff and people benefit from having things predicted to them, to the greatest extent you can. Your article does a great job of helping to illuminate the internal experience of people who may or may not have the verbal ability to let you know what is bothering them. Sensory issues can be the barrier to receiving appropriate healthcare and the nurse as an advocate has the chance to make the difference.

You make me smile: ATI hospital, NCLEX hospital and real world hospital sounds like we are living in three parallel universes. Sometimes when I take those tests, I think we are The books are a good suggestion. In the beginning I was not using them much because there was so much required reading and ATI is suggested rather than required. They are good though, like Cliff notes for ideal world (or ATI world) nursing.