pclaybrooke

Many of the nurses who have left the field have reestablished with non mandating facilities, so you are right in the sense that it’s going to be more expensive stressful and dangerous for not only hospitals, but also nursing homes and rural health community centers. So why continue to mandate it, unless you think that you will lose more lives to Covid then you will staff shortages and the closing of facilities like nursing homes and rural clinics. Time will tell right? I think it was a bad idea for some hospitals to let go of LVN’s from the and I think mandating the vaccine is just another bad idea, but that’s my opinion, not fact.

“ I'm oddly surprised and a bit curious as to the ideas presented here. People are mentioning cases, inundations of hospitals, economic windfalls, etc. I haven't seen anyone challenge the efficacy of RT-PCR testing, nor the conflicts of interests (COIs) surrounding those tests, the COIs within the FDA and the funding they receive, or even the fact that we are testing asymptomatic people. The 2006 swineflu "pandemic" ended up being a "casedemic," ultimately due to the use of PCR testing. So, it's very difficult for me to support a governmental mandate, state or federal, to be placed on people when the analyses are faulty. I won't begin to mention the unconstitutionality of it. If we continue to tread down this path of collusion between the pharma, medical, and governmental bodies, we will not like the outcome. The shear censorship of researchers and medical professionals to be able to even state their opinions without being shut down, is VERY concerning. giving me "thought police" vibes. For a population of professionals that "follow the science," we seem to lean towards the "sciences" that suit our personal beliefs, leaving objectivity to the back burner, ultimately allowing very important voices to not only go unheard, but purposely silenced”. Very well said. I agree 100%.

And that’s not to mention Nursing Homes and rural health centers - Multiple stories like this one in many states across the US https://www.wibw.com/2021/08/26/staff-vaccine-mandate-could-lead-shortages-even-closure-some-kansas-nursing-homes/

Sorry I haven’t had time to respond back and sometimes I feel like the conversation is going nowhere, so I usually just don’t waste time to debate back and forth. I said in a statement earlier that hopefully we can all discuss things back and forth with statistics, research and current thoughts, ideas and facts with the ability to agree to disagree and not take things personal. So no matter where you stand, we had a nursing shortage before the mandate and now we are going to have a bigger shortage since the mandate. I’m telling you that no matter what you think, nurses want to be well informed prior to putting something in their system and their is evidence on both sides for and against the vaccines. Recently you can see huge nursing shortages post vaccine mandate in multiple cities across the United States to the point that ANA in a 9/8/21 article titled “Is the nursing shortage now a national crisis” shows we have lost enough nurses to burnout, retirement, etc. So we can’t loose more nursing staff to the mandate. American Hospital Association showed the last week of August 39% of hospitals mandated vaccines for their staff and their is a valid concern in the article that if their is a impact of 38% that leave the net impact will be compromised care for the patients and I figure a lot more safe harbor. From an article on August 26,2021 it notes that Houston Methodist is struggling with 150 that were fired or quit. And that’s just one hospital.

I feel like I should clarify that we have had many people in our clinic who have gotten vaccinated at the pharmacy and I think that’s great, because they made the decision to do what was best in their minds with all the information that was given to them.

Sorry. Meant to attach that last part to another thread

Sadly, I think this is one of those situations we will have to agree to disagree and we should both be fine with that, but for the record Remdesivir benefits have not outweighed the risks, that’s why in many hospitals as of recent they have stopped using it and moved on to high dose dexamethasone and older antiviral’s and Ivermectin is very safe - I’ll post some videos later today with highly regarded specialists in their fields talking and doing interviews amongst the current debate. Also, you really think so many healthcare workers are not getting vaccinated, because of my stance? I think they aren’t getting vaccinated because they want more information and testing on the medication. C’mon- These are fellow healthcare workers and doctors and specialists. Again, It’s a situation where everyone should take all of the information from both sides of the discussions and make the best decision for their health, not be intimidated or threatened with take the vaccine or else. Ivermectin is not unproven. It has actually gone through multiple studies. I’ll upload the major studies with video attachments later today

I really wish we had time to discuss health policy because the population strategy should be educating the greater population. There are multiple ways we can achieve the goal of helping as many as possible not die without buying into the gimmicks that the majority who contract Covid have died, because that statistically is not true. I like you do not want anyone to die, but the truth is even the vaccinated have died, so shouldn’t we look for every best effort to help as many as we can. Why aren’t we discussing medications with quantitative efficacy for the masses like Ivermectin and Budesonide that many specialists have brought to light? Question in regards to our health policies - do you feel like the health policy specialists that put Remdesivir in place are doing right, because we are now showing high incidence of renal failure not induced by Covid and it’s cytokine storm, but a medication induced problem and the medication is not showing the results they had hoped it would, yet it is still being given at $3K a pop. Why? When Ivermectin is $50 for 20 tabs with better efficacy rates. Hate to make this a money thing ya’ll, but the longer you are in the field you will realize there’s always a money trail and that’s sad to me because there are so many good people that want to do the right thing, but are not allowed to. At some point, we all have to make a decision where we stand, the sad part to me is it is greatly dividing us as fellow medical workers. We have disagreed a great deal on therapies in the past and always seemed to be able to agree to disagree, until now. Now it has become personal, when before the right to choose was just a given. So to claim that we should all understand the principles of public health, I agree and one step further we should apply skepticism and logic to everything that comes our way. If someone says yo you to go give a medication to a patient and says they need it to save their life and it’s completely safe. Do you just go give it or do you wanna know the safety data, SE’s and ADE’s or test studies behind it? Did we all do that with this medication? I haven’t. I haven’t even done that. I should though. We all should. Why are so many health care workers not getting the vaccine? Shouldn’t that be something we think about and not just wave off as their being irresponsible?

But that is the argument isn’t it? If you are vaccinated then why are you even worried about the unvaccinated. If I am vaccinated, by just general definition, the. The moment that disease hits my system the blood cells should figure out what’s going on quickly and attack. The problem is that this vaccine was rolled out quickly without years of trial (and understandably since it was under an emergency basis), but still I think it’s not responsible to make claims for it being “safe for so many” when it has not been tested for more than a year barely. I really do help it is safe and years down the road people don’t regret getting it. I have family who had gotten vaccinated, and so far so good and again I hope months down the road it stays that way.

I completely agree. I will use 3 videos with sourced information and then I will also add articles tomorrow with sourced information. Majority of the information is on the multiple ways to effectively and efficiently address Covid including the use of Ivermectin and the many with antibodies and the recent report from Israel (who has a huge number of vaccinated) stating “Having SARS-CoV-2 once confers much greater immunity than a vaccine—but vaccination remains vital (for those who do not have antibodies) “Israelis who had an infection were more protected against the Delta coronavirus variant than those who had an already highly effective COVID-19 vaccine” https://www.science.org/content/article/having-sars-cov-2-once-confers-much-greater-immunity-vaccine-vaccination-remains-vital another article out of England noted: “there are some rare risks associated with the vaccines – rare blood clots connected with the AstraZeneca vaccine and the risk of myocarditis (heart inflammation) in the case of the Pfizer vaccine are just two”. we actually have had patients in our clinic who have side effects from the vaccine and others who have had lost viral chronic fatigue without taking the vaccine. Some across the United States have died unvaccinated and some have died vaccinated. I would like to see some honest statistics on that as I know certain comorbidities have played a bigger role in susceptibility such as obesity it seems. Also, I would like to see some more research into why a husband and spouse who have Covid and are around each other have drastically varying symptoms - possibly a deeper look into the role that blood type or certain immunotherapies may play into this - as we have had every scenario where we have where both parties are vaccinated, both are unvaccinated or one is and one isn’t and in many of those cases I don’t see lesser symptomology with a vaccinated individual than an unvaccinated individual, but we are also very aggressive with Therapies that seem to work very well and have been originated from other specialists - especially with many who are already very immune compromised. My argument in the midst of all the pros and cons is still for the right of one to choose.

Are we comparing Covid to smallpox? That’s interesting. You need to review all the literature my friend, I recommend the good amount of research produced by Israel and England and not the bias of the social media on both sides. So, again, what I am saying is that people should have the right to choose and not just following the media mindlessly based on their inaccurate statistics. So, by your statement of the unvaccinated endangering the whole population, that definitely doesn’t make sense as we have many who have antibodies and others who have been vaccinated. Statistically the majority of the population have very general symptoms, but general symptoms won’t get media attention. Sadly there are many who have died, but if you look at the latest results from Australia and England their is a high percentage of those in the hospital who are fully vaccinated and another percent that are unvaccinated without antibodies. So, as medical professionals both you and I need to draw back the anger and drive deeper into the facts on both sides.

Yes I am against mandating. I have no problem with highly recommending, but mandating “or else” is taking away the ability of choice and that’s a freedom many have fought long and hard for.

I think we in the medical field need to have constructive discussions, because the people will remain divided if we can’t even work towards some agreements within both sides of the debate

Communist in the form of dictating or mandating “you will do this or else” from the presidents mouth or businesses and hospitals will be fined. Puts places in a hard spot which will not work for the American businesses and health care agencies in the past. To be fair the president did say that people could also be tested weekly, but hospitals are not implementing this and that’s why there is a huge loss of nurses. things can be highly recommended, but to mandate “or else” is not what we do in America and there is evidence on both sides for and against vaccination that is actually very valid, more studies once again from Israel and London have seemed to bring about some good evidence for the unvaccinated and vaccinated and both of these areas have been highly vaccinated. I think there is evidence of pros and cons on both sides of this discussion of vaccinated and unvaccinated, so to draw a line on everyone should vaccinate seems scientifically unresponsible. What about those who have the antibodies? Haven’t heard a word about this. And why are the vaccinated even worried about the unvaccinated if they are protected? just thoughts

In the United States of America, it feels very communistic to have anything mandated. Things can be highly recommended, but to just say things like: "All for it. The simple fact that mandates are needed speaks volumes to the sheer stupidity of those can get vaccinated but choose not to". - This response shows lack of intelligence to review the science from both sides of the spectrum. C'mon medical community, we're better than this. Don't just follow the liberal media machine that tout's fear on a daily basis, but never seems to put success stories from the vaccinated and unvaccinated. I have majority of my unvaccinated patients that have done very well after getting covid and I have also had a few both vaccinated and unvaccinated patient's that had to go to the hospital. So it is a huge disservice to the medical community as a whole to take sides when we have forever been able to "agree to disagree" and keep making decisions based on scientific evidence which is constantly being updated. Some really good reports recently out of Israel and England.