Chellyse

Ok here goes: 1. Professionally speaking (no pun intended) It bothers me when any group of individuals begins speaking in a different rhetoric in front of patients families and co-workers which is excluding in nature and intentionally (ex. Filipino, Haitian,african american slang,creole) I think you should be aware of people around you and how it makes them feel. 2. It bothers me when excuses are made for anyones behavior when discrimination is the undertone (ie. She was brought up in the South, or White people owe the black people, He or she is gay/ lesbian) You need to be responsible regardless!!! 3. I bothers me when management does not want to address an an issue because it "might become racial", or an african american claims "they are doing it because I am black" (I am not saying that there are no cases when this is a truth I am expressing I have seen this issue exploited too) 4. Professionals that claim I do not understand something because of the language culture barrier but are using it as an excuse to get out of a particular work related scenario, I have seen this happen too frequently. 5. It bothers me when someone of my race approaches me and uses derogatory slurs under there breath about someone else, and I call them out for it. It is like they assume I am going to automatically agree because I am of the same race. I hope I am expressing myself correctly, it is difficult to write about these things easier for me to express verbally. 6. I do not like disparity of treatment for any reason, racially, sexually, mentally ill, poor, rich.....And people do this!! Just my honest ramblings Michele

You can find it here: https://allnurses.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=24165 Note: Merged threads together. Karen

Here are two places to find out a little bit of information, on assignment despite of objection. http://www.ana.org/readroom/position/workplac/wkassign.htm http://www.florenceproject.org/ado.shtml On a personal note, I brought one to work intending on utilizing it when the staffing numbers were so low they were causing immediate danger to the residents (I work in LTC and Subacute) and when the topic was presented the retaliation factor became a priority for me. I have since left the position, wishing I would have used the tool. I have heard of a few nurses using the form in the hospital setting with better results, they took the assignment but atleast it was noted thier concerns and a paper trail was established. Michele

Peggy, I am sorry to hear you are ill. We do need unity and we do need something that will get attention. I can see ribbons are symbolic and I know they have an important message for so many. We had talked about them once in the MNM campaign utilizing a twist with a braided ribbon of black and white. Night and Day service, death of the profession and white of course as traditional symbolism. Then we clung to the whistle campaign which the article reflected. We were suggesting that nurses wear whistles and we could blow them in unison LOL. Any ideas brought in support of solidarity are good ones, I appreciate the idea you have brought forth. I hope you feel better soon Peg!! :)

Hey Peggy I like your enthusiasm. I think ribbons are overdone a bit. Hey I got it why don't we all take a 1 dollar bill and pin it to our uniforms, if we walked around with money pinned to the front of our chest everyone would take notice. I just bet with the great minds here we could come up with many good arguments why the almighty dollar could be used for symbolism, both because we need more of it and the greed of it has so obviously corrupted the system!!! Any takers? P.S. As an added bonus when we take them off or they get old we can donate them to the cause. As long as we wear it we are not defacing it, just do not write on it LOL And the color is Green. [ May 31, 2001: Message edited by: Chellyse66 ]

I worked all weekend so have not been here. Saw the couple posts about CNA's calling themselves "Nurses" and could not refuse. Number one the ASS wiper references have to go, you degrade yourselves with that coined term, not to mention it is played out... These arguments are so redundant,every state has practice acts and rules to follow. It may intereset you to note that in several states laws have been passed that strictly FORBID (you will be prosecuted) using the title LPN or RN without the licensure! The go into detail about what the term Nurse means and it is not to be used loosely.I will find those recently enacted laws and post them here. So use your title Certified Nursing Assistant because that is what you are legally entitled to. I am a ADN but started my career as a Certified Nursing Assistant (I still carry the card in my wallet) We were required to take 240 semester hours at COLLEGE in the state of Florida to become Certified as a Nursing Assistant at that time, requirements have changed. I was proud of my title and my scope of practice then and now. But they are NOT the same. Don't attempt to compare,there are commonalities in the care and they build upon each other, but it is an earned title to be called a Nurse. Yes, in fact in the state of Florida in a non skilled facility or an Assisted Living facility , CNA's and Patient Care Associates (not even certified) can and do give medications including narcotics.They are only required to take a ONE day medication course!!! I do not agree with this practice but it is allowed in this state because Assisted living and Home Health are regulated differently, thus billed differently. It is looked upon as if the patient is taking his/her own med and the CNA is only dispensing the medication. There are strict rules that are attached in that they are supposedly only allowed to hand the med to the patient thus not held responsible for any adverse reactions ect. They are responsible for dispensing the correct med to the correct patient but not held liable for anything else. So the responsibility is Different!!As I said I think this is dangerous practice simply because assisted living facilitites are accepting and keeping increasingly complex patients and CNA"S even with amed training class are not aware of the complications,interactions, and reactions associated with dispensing meds. There is a strict legal difference between dispense and administer in the state of Florida. HealthCare is ever changing and SKILLLS (learned skills by any and all healthcare workers) change with technology and insurance. Nurses and Cna's should be participating in on the job training and continuing education all the time. This does not change the titles or requirements. For those that are CNA's now respect yourself and give respect and 90% of the time you will get it back. There are many hospitals that employ few CNA's because the nurses are participating in primary care, taking all the responsibilities for that patient themselves.Including daily care, baths, incontinence care , bedmaking, medications ,treatments,documentation everything, no other assistance. This happens in both acute care and med surg here in Florida. Frankly I prefer this type of nursing because the patient load is less and you get to know your patient better. This is long but I respect all my colleagues if I am respected in return. I do not appreciate an unlicensed person implying licensure by calling themselves a nurse. Like where you are...further your career if you choose...and quit using the term ass wiper Please!!!!! :) :)

Thanks Leeson LOL :) I have to say this post is ripe with emotions, but Tim making a public apology deserves attention because it shows that he is willing to accept a mistake and admit it.That is admirable enough to offset the "Monkeys" which he apologized for. I appreciate Hotspam because as stated the debate began with no boundaries, free for all was aptly termed. It is Nurses Week (even if we do not advocate the sappy happy quotes,)we could take a moment to focus on the unity issues. :) :)

Thanks Leeson LOL :) I have to say this post is ripe with emotions, but Tim making a public apology deserves attention because it shows that he is willing to accept a mistake and admit it.That is admirable enough to offset the "Monkeys" which he apologized for. I appreciate Hotspam because as stated the debate began with no boundaries, free for all was aptly termed. It is Nurses Week (even if we do not advocate the sappy happy quotes,)we could take a moment to focus on the unity issues. :) :)

CanoeHead started a post on professionalism asking us to define or give examples.I am glad he asked you can find the thread here: https://allnurses.com/bb/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=002602 We should talk about it,what I said before was about giving respect to one another,when defining professionalism I found this from the Kansas Medical School: "Respect for others, including patients and their families and other professional colleagues is the essence of humanism, which is both central to professionalism, and fundamental to enhancing collegiality among medical professionals." Now Tim in that definition comparing someone to a trained monkey is way off base and disrespectful....So in essence you were unprofessional in your response.I think you should realize this mistake and the harm done,and apologize.Now that would be a step in the direction of dialogue. Along with being professionals we are all humans, so sometimes we get too personal in our own defense or passion.But to admit you have that is more important.I know I have even on this BB made some posts I later regretted,I hope this is not one of them.... :)

Oh boy let me take a deep breath and jump in...While stating that Tim was trying to make a point which is valid the post got a wee bit emotional and personal at the end. All nurses are not the same, all doctors are not the same...There has to be standards, part of the problem when we start talking about standards it leads into the elitist stance and defensive mode (stealth mode for some Good Lord) I think the ANA should represent LPN's as I said in a different post and if the time comes, maybe it is now, why not allow LPN's that have x experience to challenge the boards? This is not a fast track equation, the military does this all the time.For those that choose not to that is fine too. The standards could be raised for a BSN, since ADN and BSN take the same boards, add some questions that pertain to the mandated curriculum why not...seperate us out more or level the field.These arguments are old began with eltism and were meant to be divise.Standards were different 50 years ago then they are now.In the last 5 years we have gone from taking the Boards for a two day written session to an online computer version (and yes this has changed the format,check the debates and articles at the NCLEX site) There are so many options available in Healthcare today that a revamping of the entire nursing process is a possibility really. To better prepare speciality nurses focus the curriculum and criteria there. I know I am stepping into hot water just by posting on this thread. I work with many LPN's because I work in geriatrics,I can tell you that some are perfectly content with thier practice and some choose advancing to ADN or BSN but all that I have talked to,tell me that there is a difference in the knowledge base requirements between an RN and LPN. I did not say one was better than the other, and I did not say that working as a nurse in LTC in particular has any basis in clinical skills needed, just that there is a difference. The difference becomes apparent when you sit for the boards. I mean I might be so competent as to know how to take care of the needs of a particular client better than the physician assigned to the case but that does not negate the fact that the physician has more education than me, because he does. We have the opportunity to make our opinions known with a tremendous nursing shortage hovering atop this profession.Now is the time to make changes, we need to decide what those changes need to be. The ADN nurse was brought in and designed for a nursing shortage and today makes up 70% of the workforce. The word "professional" is the target or was, the class system was set up long ago but it does not mean it can not be changed. I enjoy working with LPN's,treat everyone with respect and you will get respect in return.This argument did not need to happen if this was observed,but the fact remains it is a real issue and the only way to find solutions is to dialogue about it, because it keeps coming up over and over again.I hope we can dialogue again :) :)

Now this is interesting, I am the fence post rider on this ANA issue, waiting and watching, but came across this piece of reading...Essentially we have created this heirachy ourselves, but technically the ANA was extremely instrumental in creating the divisions we now suffer from in this profession. Same arguments for 50 years does lend credence to the ANA being responsible.So let us see if they are able to also make the changes to right some of the wrongs so to speak. It is possible, time will tell... Quote from the ANA website: "The Flexner report prompted much introspection about nursing's ability to meet the new standards (Wuest, 1994) and stimulated a long and arduous process of redefining the profession of nursing and working to change external perceptions in order that nursing could attain a professional status equal to that ascribed to medicine and the other professions. To that end, over the past 80 plus years, we have seen an expansion and standardization of nursing curricula; attempts to raise academic requirements for entry-level practitioners; the establishment of nursing's own research agenda and an expansion of its scientific knowledge base; the development of nursing theories; and the establishment of increasingly autonomous practice that includes prescriptive authority, admission privileges, and direct reimbursement from federal insurance. During the process of working to advance nursing as a profession, some distinct divisions began to emerge among RNs that are being played out, even today, especially regarding attempts to organize for collective bargaining. As nursing bought into the popular definition of professionalism and began to lay out the process by which it would attain that identity, it simultaneously began to eschew some of the attributes long associated with nursing. When baccalaureate programs appeared as a means to professionalize nursing (the major focus of these programs was on nursing education and administration), distinctions between academically prepared nurses and those coming from traditional hospital "apprenticeship" programs began to surface and prompted debate about "whose work was the most meaningful" (Wuest, 1994). Over time, increasingly higher status was given to those in nursing positions remote from the bedside and direct care. In attempting to professionalize nursing by distancing itself from those traditional roles and activities that have negative, historically feminine overtones, but that many RNs embrace as a satisfying and necessary part of patient care, nursing has ultimately created divisions within its own ranks and validated external speculations about a house in disorder." I also agree that there should be equal representation if called the "American Nursing Association" and I also believe it is and was intended at the time to be established in an elitist view, what are they willing to do now is the question?

Now this is interesting, I am the fence post rider on this ANA issue, waiting and watching, but came across this piece of reading...Essentially we have created this heirachy ourselves, but technically the ANA was extremely instrumental in creating the divisions we now suffer from in this profession. Same arguments for 50 years does lend credence to the ANA being responsible.So let us see if they are able to also make the changes to right some of the wrongs so to speak. It is possible, time will tell... Quote from the ANA website: "The Flexner report prompted much introspection about nursing's ability to meet the new standards (Wuest, 1994) and stimulated a long and arduous process of redefining the profession of nursing and working to change external perceptions in order that nursing could attain a professional status equal to that ascribed to medicine and the other professions. To that end, over the past 80 plus years, we have seen an expansion and standardization of nursing curricula; attempts to raise academic requirements for entry-level practitioners; the establishment of nursing's own research agenda and an expansion of its scientific knowledge base; the development of nursing theories; and the establishment of increasingly autonomous practice that includes prescriptive authority, admission privileges, and direct reimbursement from federal insurance. During the process of working to advance nursing as a profession, some distinct divisions began to emerge among RNs that are being played out, even today, especially regarding attempts to organize for collective bargaining. As nursing bought into the popular definition of professionalism and began to lay out the process by which it would attain that identity, it simultaneously began to eschew some of the attributes long associated with nursing. When baccalaureate programs appeared as a means to professionalize nursing (the major focus of these programs was on nursing education and administration), distinctions between academically prepared nurses and those coming from traditional hospital "apprenticeship" programs began to surface and prompted debate about "whose work was the most meaningful" (Wuest, 1994). Over time, increasingly higher status was given to those in nursing positions remote from the bedside and direct care. In attempting to professionalize nursing by distancing itself from those traditional roles and activities that have negative, historically feminine overtones, but that many RNs embrace as a satisfying and necessary part of patient care, nursing has ultimately created divisions within its own ranks and validated external speculations about a house in disorder." I also agree that there should be equal representation if called the "American Nursing Association" and I also believe it is and was intended at the time to be established in an elitist view, what are they willing to do now is the question?

Jami, Oh my Lord I can not believe he responded to you. Did you guys read what he wrote back. So if he says he is not so niave as to think nurses were not going to be offensive to the material, what is this creep's angle? The target audience is the million "Non clinician" partners of nurses. What is he going to call the syndrome...What is the treatment LOL? I am with the poster that asked what of the homosexual partners? This is so sick, but he may sell this BS I am telling you this may be the next false memory syndrome, totally whacked. Half truths like a borderline personality is what he is.Maybe we can all write him with our spousal responses, but heck maybe thats what turns this guy on ya never know. Freak of the week Damon may have his own personal kinky agenda. He did say in another post "send me an email and My wife and I will send you photographs of ourselves" Now that would be creepy......

What is worse he is not only, a sexist but a racist, and an obvious psychotic... This quote was at the bottom: ""When we walked in the shopping mall together in the evening or on the weekend, and we would pass a big good-looking black man walking by, it would occur to me that my pretty young white wife had probably seen and touched black men like him, laying naked in the OR being prepped for a circumcision. And I knew that black men are generally very virile and masculine and have large memberes and testicles. It always seemed so extreme and strange to me that my young pretty white wife could be so intimately familiar with the bodies of black men. And I knew very well that her male coworkers got a kick out of seeing her handling and washing that big black member under those bright lights. And I knew I would never in my life see my wife hold a black man’s member, although she had done it many times in my absence. " OMG...and he is able to publish this mess? Freedom of speech allowed, this is just terrible!!!!

I know when I read it I just about fell outta the chair... This guy is obviously one tweeked man, and his wife is warped to stay with him. I just could not believe he actually wrote an entire morificecript and is serious about his revelations!! Can you imagine though how this will get the public going? And I agree that it serves to perpetuate the Mediao/slut/ho factor, this guy baked tooooo long. Thought you guys would get a good laugh from this one.

After reading the thread about the jokes by Jay Leno and the comments. We do need to gain some thicker skin I agree but it reminded me of this dissertation "morificecript" this PHD is/was trying to sell I found on another board. This guy is actually writing a novel about sexism in nursing atleast from his point of view. I thought it was crazy , I wanted to post it here and get your reactions, this is part of the reason why we need to be aware of what is going on, people like this guy, next thing you know we will have a new diagnosis called Nursing sexual adversion disorder or post traumatic spousal nurse reactions...Lord what these people do for attention. Here is a small excert you can find the whole 4 chapters over at another bb here: http://discussion.aboutnursing.net/read.php?f=2&i=132&t=132 This is for real.... All Rights Reserved Version 2 E-mail contact for response to Morificecript: [email protected] Husbands of Nurses The Great Untold Story of Suppressed Sexual Frustration in Modern Society Patricia Gail Smith, R.N. Damon Smith, Ph.D. Introduction:This is a book unlike any that you have ever read or probably will ever read again. It violates a social "taboo" and discusses an aspect of our society that all of us have wondered about at one time or another in our lives: "how can a man married to a pretty young nurse feel comfortable about what she does in the hospital, taking care of all those male patients?". We all realize that this has to be a strange situation for the husband and his wife, but we accept it as a necessary aspect of taking care of society’s needs. If you are the husband of a nurse, you know that society tells you that you have no right to feel uncomfortable about your wife’s attentive care-giving to other men in the clinical setting. Because she is a medical professional and only "doing her job", you are supposed to deny and suppress any feelings of jealousy and discomfort, even in your realization that the men she cares for sometimes enjoy her attentions as a sexual experience. Our society is not perfect and nobody ever said that life is fair. Society does what it has to do, in matching its resources with its needs. It needs young married women to work as nurses, so it dictates that you will "look the other way" and accept her interactions with these men, regardless of how extreme the exposure and contact, and feel only pride that your wife is caring for those in need. Today’s woman is an independent human being living in a free society, and she has the right to do whatever job she wants to do. But there was a time in our society when no self-respecting husband would even consider allowing his wife to see, much less touch, the naked body of another man. Nursing in those days was performed by Catholic nuns and other unmarried women. But now a woman can pursue nursing as a career without asking for anybody’s permission. That’s the way it is in today’s social and political setting, and that’s great. The only problem is that men have basic instinctual feelings about their wives and their interactions with other men that have been programmed into their genetic makeup over millions of years. The social and political changes that have occurred over the last thousand years have done nothing to alter the gut response of the human male animal. Basic human nature hasn’t changed, but our society has. Therein lies the basic conflict and the reason for this book. As the husband of a nurse, after you read this book, you may feel better about what your wife does in the clinical setting. But our real hope is that you will feel better about yourself, and that you will have an understanding of what is real and what is artificial about the nursing profession. And hopefully, you will understand that you have a right to "think like a man", and "think like a husband", because that’s what you are, and you don’t have to apologize to anyone for feeling that way, especially to your wife. After reading this book, you may for the first time in your marriage, be able to "get real" with your wife about what she does. You may be able to understand what she feels about your role as the husband of a nurse and why she feels that way. And you may come to understand why she believes that it is reasonable and fair to conceal from you what she sees and does with her male patients, behind closed doors where you are forbidden to go. And most importantly, you may bring to the surface and openly discuss feelings of sexual frustration that you have been programmed by society to deny and suppress, which affect the quality of your relationship with the person you love. And if you are a nurse, after reading this book, you may come to realize that society has used you for its purposes and programmed you to believe, quite remarkably, that you can go beyond social sexual norms as a part of your job and have a comfortable and stress-free relationship with your husband. You may think back over the years of your training in nursing school and find it somewhat curious that no one ever discussed with you, even once, the rather obvious fact that what nurses do can produce frustration in a husband and cause problems for your marriage. There’s a reason for this. Society doesn’t want you to think about that, it just wants you to go and take care of those patients. We have written this book together, as a nurse and her husband, to put some reality into the artificial concepts surrounding the nursing profession, and to help nurses and their husbands to understand the forces at work which put them in a frustrating and difficult situation. Gail is a Registered Nurse and Damon is a scientist working in the space program. We are not experts in psychology, but we feel that we have insight into the problem, because we have experienced it first hand. And perhaps more importantly, we have the commitment to be "real" and "tell it like it is", at least within the limits of our perception and understanding of the problem and its causes.

Duckie, Sounds like you did the right thing by going directly to the administrator. You say she is now moved to psych, hopefully she will be evaluated and placed on the right medications to assist her,so she can live out as peacebly as she can. I know this must be hard for you as one of the primary nurses she gravitated to and the closeness of the situation to your own emotions. Still I am glad to see that the situation was talked about it says alot about your character as a nurse. There are those who would not have cared or been so involved and the transition to the psych unit still might have occurred but you were able to show not only the patients and co workers but even us bb'ers how you handled this difficult patient and your humanity through out. Thank you for the update.

This is not the first time I have seen or heard about this going on. While the intentions may have been good (inable Mother to get good care because she is at my facility or I can make sure she is watched ect.) The complications are seldom easy. She seems inappropriate for skilled care based on your statements of assessment in behavior (mooning the ward) have you tried involving the social worker on this one? Approaching the administrator eventually will be part of the plan if she is listed as the contact person. Have you attended any care planning meetings. The denial of alzheimers is not easy to cut through with close family but maybe with enough documentation it is possible to show at the meetings she would be safer on a ward with less distraction and more individualized care. Or what might happen I have seen this too, it will come down to a situation where there is ultimately no choice, the administrator being the daughter and nurse as the grandaughter while legal is not prudent because too many emotions are involved. I enjoy it when my patients families are able to help out when visiting if they are health care workers, because this assists me in my job at times and makes them feel good. But this is more likely a hinderance to this patient's care. How long has she been there? and has it changed any after the transition of the move to this new residence? Good luck in any case.

I have not posted here in a long time.I came over to read the news and have read the long Million Nurse March post. I tell you for something that started so easily on this very message board,I am amazing it is the same ones that continue to stir the pot. The Million Nurse March is continuing to grow,we have gained much support and many members. Please visit www.millionnursemarch.org To understand what the campaign is about and how you can volunteer. Jt this is for you,regarding the UAN,I spoke to them directly last year.They telephoned me at home to speak directly to me about the MNM.At that time I had a pleasant conversation with the UAN rep in DC, they were not interested in endorsing or sponsering us at the time,and they discussed no plans for upcoming events we could mutually participate in. The conversation was open and welcomed.So,it still remains open.If they call me again I will present it to them again. I know many are referencing the archives,but when you go to the MNM archives on this site only two posts appear.I have asked Brian Short about this and it was explained to me in an email that due to the lack of interest they are all not available.So if you have access I do not please share or maybe Brian will put them all up and if anyone is interested they can read for themselves. JT you also left the MNM by choice and that same door remains open.Just as it has been for anyone willing to put aside there agendas and March for a common cause. The Million Nurse March is not intended to perpetuate the politics that Nurses are already facing,simply to be an avenue for Nurses to unify and display to the public that indeed we are a profession that needs respect,improved working conditions,increased compensation and new recruits.We need to reward the veteran nurses that have remained in this profession despite the working conditions and low pay,long hours ,mandatory overtime. We need to unite whether it be by UNIONS or ASSOCIATIONS we need our strength in numbers.This is how we will be able to make the necessary changes.Also to address the traditional attitudes we display amongst ourselves. Respectfully, Michele Jansen RN