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Dude, We need to talk off line (571st 76-80: MVA till 83).

I to started off on the Rocky Mountain High post ETS'ing from Fort Cartoon. OH, your one of those holy tony type's. I'm so sorry. We of the Swedish/DG programs remember you all in our prayers (lol). Wow, they were the good old days, weren't they? I've worked virtually every service from Ft Collins to Pueblo (which just proves that I can't hold a job). Skipped Colorado and made my way to Alaska. Views good (but it still not the Maroon bells). I do have to admit I enjoy making 6 figures/year for the exact same work that was paying $65,000 (and benefits? Hahahahaha) And now, back from the land of memories! Take care

Actually worked with a DSN level NP who's last name was "Doctor". Oh man, did we have a lot of fun with that one.

You are right. Hopefully someone will correct the curriculum that the DNP schools are advocating. If you want to make it a terminal professional practice degree-then put some patient care material in it. Lord, it looks like a certification course from a master's in health services admin program. One other point-You need to add a for real residency requirement. You know, like one of the 4400 hours of patient care activities over 54 weeks. Get into people, it is great (yes painful) and worthwhile. The more your there, the more you see. The more you see, the more you do. And the more you do, the better you are. I know everyone will argue too many hours, tired, no need, etc. Take it on and complete it. Then I'll debate/argue your objectively based arguements. But please don't bother with subjective or preceptional points of contention.

Is there a problem with Nursing wanting and/or having a doctorial degree. Of course not. But I've been looking at the curriculum listed for the DNP. With one or two exceptions all that I can say is-You've got to be putting me on. Do it right or these ivory tower academics are going to destroy any crediblilty that we've worked so hard and long to develop.

Hey Dave, Just kind of off target but I've just gotta ask. When I trained/worked in Colorado, we used to term "CoreO" for arrest of what ever etiology. Are you back their running around on the front slope? Man, do I miss home. But the mountain states are called the land of "proverty with a view" for a reason. Just curious my friend, enjoy your day.

The Ambulance drive-damn I did that full time for 15 of the best years of my life! A shame I damn near went bankrupt doing it-or I might still be having at it (and I do on occasion still fly rescue-when the kids will let me). I do believe that I might have not be clear with what was written. I in no way advocate replacing MD's with DNP's. I don't know if your at the paramedic level, but the first thing they teach is that patient care is a team sport. So of course you want to have a senior somewhere in program. As far as progressing to a doctorial, why not? If someone what's to spend the time and money to study their discipline of choice-what's the problem? Any physician that considers a nursing doctorate a threat has a really weak ego-or is a idiot. Is an DNP going to change how an NP practices (from the curriculum I rather doubt it). As long as it's not mandatory, have at it. Just to let you know- I'm currently or have been a military medic, EMT-P, RN, NP-C, and PA-C (yea I know I'm old). And they were done for real. Doing it on line may work for some, but I'm afraid that I'm just not one of them.

To some people of the medical establishment, and you know to who I speak. I am a professional military officer who has completed 3 combat tours(as infantry and after injury an NP). I also have a PhD in Military History. And if any one of your want to try to insist that I should not be addressed as Doctor----you are going to have more of a problem then you'll know how to handle. Lose the pompus arrogant attitude. Just because you completed medical school/residency (and it is quite the accomplishment) it does not give you exclusive ownership of the title "Doctor" by fiat. I do realize that this attitude is not found in a majority of physicians. And how do I know this? Because I've had quite a few of them under my command. And the good one's don't worry about title, they're too busy insuring that quality care is being provided regardless of the level of training.. And so you aware, in a patient care unit I am addressed as Colonel. And just to be clear. If upper level nursing deleated all the fluff course, there would be enough time to get adequate clinical training. And then maybe this problem would not occur. Nursing should have the ability to obtain a doctorate-but not have one mandated.

Sory my friend, but I do have to disagree with you. I work with many high quality physician's who, in truth are brillent. Most of them will tell you that they don't use a great deal of the materal from their undergrad degree. The primary function is to be used as a discriminator-if you can handle the rigor of the core hard sciences you have the capability to hadle Medical school. And if look at the eastern european model, the direct entry high school students seem to do fairly well. In most of the world (and I've lived in both Europe and Asia) American and Canadian Physicians are considered professors, over and above the standard practicing physician. I will support your contention the the rigor of medical classes exceed the nursing equivelent. But not everyone has to be a rocket scientist to get the job done-and done well.

Like a lo of individuals on this board I had the same problem. So not being able to make up my mind (or whats left of it)--- I got both (NCCPA and AANP). Guess my schitzophrenia just got to all of me AGAIN (LOL). I do practice on my NP licence- a lot less paperwork for the beaucrats and aggrevation.

If you are in a good FNP program, you'll already have most of the qualifications of a WHNP. You may not have the depth of information or proficiency to begin with, but you will fairly rapidly.

The two major differences to remember is this. NP's bill for services, while clinical staff RN's are carried as overhead. And there is a greater man (or woman) power requirement for the bed side. A Practitioner can cover a lot more patients than the bedside nurse. So logically you will ned less. I can tell you from past experience the few Practitioner that I've seen layed off were not out of work for any length of time (unless it was by choice).

They write the ACNP board.

It seems that there are a lot of clinical staff nurses that don't care for the role the practitioner plays in the system. They should be able to do the same thing, because afterall they to are nurses. There's a lot of folks that want to do what we do, but are unwilling (and in some cases unable) to make the sacrifices needed to get the license.

It is really funny how so many people do not understand the concepts of "screening" and being complete. I not a big fan of "gestulting" (sp) it. I was trained that you do not just think it-PROVE IT! You end up not missing a lot of things this way, And yes I do understand that some people get carried away. But in my experience it is the exception rather then the rule:angryfire

I do critical care and interact on a regular basis with quite a few CRNA'a. Except for an occasional outlyer (usually referred to by all as an *******) we all work well. If your running into this type of behavior, it's the individual, not the general attitude of the discipline. And just BTW, I've never made less than $120,000 with excellent benefits. It just depends on where you work. And if the organization values your professional services. If they low ball you, you probably don't want to work for them. Because they really don't think much of you or your license. Oh, but let your billing drop and you will hear.

"Cor zero" !!!!!!! I haven't hear the term used since I left Colorado. Wow, do you bring back memories. Thanks, you just brought back some really good memories.

In my experience this has been a chronic problem with virtually all levels of nursing education/training. Your exposed to the basics. Then whoever hires you is supposed to provide on the job upgrading. This is OK to a point. But when your getting 600-700 hours of clinical, you just don't have the experience/exposure to really be up to speed. Hopefully the new DNP's will have a significantly greater level of time working the patient. I'm a dual cert NP/PA. I did the PA emergency residency at LA County General as a PA. It was an additional (approx) 4000 hr clinical, along with about 400 hr specialty didactic plus modules, presentations to the residents, lectures. I was much better prepared after, along with being more efficient and proficient. Picking this up on the job would have taken many years and not been anywhere close to as standardized. It was one of the finest experiences that I had ever had (also damn near killed me-lol). But please remember this. This is what worked for me. Not everyone has the same goals or needs. But nursing does need to start exploring the concept. (And for christ sake don't make it mandatory-we'll never get out of school).

The ability to cure, to heal and to help is not a function exclusively owed by physicians. When I did my program at UC Davis (back in the dark ages) we had NP's, PA's, MS 1's and clinical Pharm students. And no single discipline has the right to claim sole posession.

It seems that everyone is trying to place these programs in a box. Different programs, different people with varied background, learning styles, etc. Let's put it out in multiple models and let the individual pick what works best for them.