Pmdc

Yeah, what's next? A long break? MCG's DNP? Anyway, congrats. Hope to be there myself in a few months.

Sorry for the brevity. ATL is ATLanta. Along similar lines of WI being WIsconsin. I do agree with the path you mention. Why not make money while pursuing the BSN?

I read yours and others posts about your experiences. You ended up with initial licensure in another state, and then wasn't able to endorse, right? The system our State has created, be it for those seeking endorsement, or those pursuing initial licensure, should at least be navigable to those who are forced into it. I know I'm not saying anything you don't already know way more about than I do, but I was just curious about whether the graduates who are now having to do preceptorships are finding it easy to find sites, preceptors, etc. Seems like it might be a nightmare, because I've not seen a clear explanation of the process from the BON. Is there one? For what it's worth (again, preaching to the choir), I think Georgia made a monumental mistake here, and it's cost us who knows how many qualified, professional, clinically competent RNs. I'm sure the nursing leaders of our border states are appreciative of the leaders of our State, because they will benefit immensely. Our State is rarely at the top of any list; well, except for high school dropout rates, STDs, and teenage pregnancy. Poor decisions by members of our leadership may just keep us at the top of these lists.

I know a couple of people in Georgia who are starting the precepted clinicals after completing the EC ASN. From what I hear, it's easier if you do it through the hospital where you are employed. Is that the consensus? What about those who work in a specialized facility that may not have psych, OB, and whatever other rotations that are required? Are hospitals welcoming non-employees who are already ASN grads for a 350-700 hour clinical preceptorship, and have no current affiliation with a school of nursing as a student? How does that work? Is it possible, considering the potential liability? Does the state provide an outline of a course of study for the clinical experience? I ask because I participated in some of the political processes of the previous Georgia legislative session, and wondered if the process the State has mandated actually works for those forced to go through it. I'm not in a position of political power, but I am persistent, and, as an EC alumnus and Georgia resident, I would like to see the process made 'user friendly' for the preceptees. If the State changes the system, their solution should be fair and just for those affected by the change. I plan to enter a PhD program when I finish the MSN in a few months, and the issue of clinical competency among students in different types of pre-licensure nursing course formats (distance vs. traditional vs. challenge exam, etc.) and the relevance of prior clinical experience has very little applicable research that I can find. It might make for a great project(s) for someone (maybe even me), and may actually be of benefit when state BONs place what appear to be unwarranted restrictions on new EC graduates. As long as there is ignorance regarding the issue, this will continue. Any feedback from those currently jumping through the hoops?

Hey-ohh!!!!:imbar

Oh. Interesting. I'm in the ATL area and from what I've been seeing the trend here seems to be going in the opposite direction as that mentioned above. I've known a few new grads with ASN degrees who were passed over due to certain facilities hiring only BSN grads. Also, I think that facilities who hold or are seeking Magnet status will actively pursue those with the BSN or higher. I guess everyone agrees so far that the short-term money difference is negligible. If you look at the big picture though, the lifetime career opportunities offered to those with higher education will far outweigh the slightly higher paycheck.

My experience with EC was great. If you decide to go with study guides from TCN, Rue, etc., then just buy them used. Some of the publishing companies have shady reputations, and sometimes the line between them and EC gets a little blurred for those who are just learning about EC. EC tries to distance themselves from these companies, but some of the companies make it appear that students must go through them to complete the EC program. Make sure your state is pro-EC. Some aren't at present time, but I assure you that their reasons for not accepting EC are not based on factual evidence. As for me, I finshed in about a year. Six months for exams; the rest waiting for the CPNE. I continued on in a traditional program for the BSN, and I'm now in another traditional program working on my masters. Due to my schedule I could have never finished my ASN the traditional way. The traditional programs are getting better in their flexibility for LPN and Paramedic to RN students, but most still have a long way to go.

I've spent my career around areas like the ER, ICU, and flight. Men seem to be pretty well represented in those areas, as well as in anesthesia. I do notice that when I visit one of our med-surg areas that they sometimes have the token dude, or maybe none at all, but due to my work area I guess I tend to not notice the disproportion to the same degree as that seen in the profession as a whole.

"Is it common that Associates degree RNs make the same as Bachelor's degree RNs in a hospital staff nurse position?" There usually isn't a huge difference in pay, at least in my experience. I think it's about 25 cents an hour at my facility. The differences I have found are that there are more opportunities available for those with the higher educational levels. Another non-monetary advantage that I have found is that the BSN courses that I had in physical assessment, pathophysiology, and pharmacology gave me more knowledge in providing direct patient care. I went in to the BSN program thinking it was mostly just management type courses, but I found it to be more than that. So, to answer the question: You won't see much difference in pay on a paycheck to paycheck basis. But, over the course of your career, your earning potential will likely be higher due to increased career opportunities.

I start my rotations in the next couple of weeks, and my first preceptor is an MD. The school allows us to use MD, DO, NP, and PA. I had hoped to work with a diverse group, and learn as much as possible from them. I'm not sure why PAs would be excluded as preceptors by some schools. Can't be that it's because some of them have a BS degree instead of a masters because I know of some "experienced" (I didn't say older) NPs who don't have a masters degree. I know they have the whole medicine focus thing, but so do MDs. I would imagine that some PA schools exclude NPs as potential preceptors as well. The schools should require us to work with as many different professionals as possible. Maybe it would open our eyes to what the other providers actually do.

You might check out this site: http://ecg.bidmc.harvard.edu/maven/mavenmain.asp Hundreds of practice ECGs with rationale.

We are not presently clearing C-spines by physical exam at my facility, but I think the time has come for properly trained RNs/Paramedics to perform this skill. Just from some of the research I've read regarding the complications of unnecessary immobilization, I wonder how much damage we've caused over the years by insisting that patients who otherwise meet the NEXUS 5-item assessment tool for spinal clearance to remain immobilized for extended times out of fear of liability. Is there no liability for unnecessary immobilization with resultant complications? I used NEXUS (which included 34,069 trauma patients at 21 facilities throughout the U.S.) as the basis for my senior research project when completing my BSN. My project was very basic, especially in regards to the number of study participants, but the RNs I surveyed clearly demonstrated that, after a very short and informal educational session, they were capable of applying the 5-item assessment tool when assessing trauma patients in a scenario-type format. For those who are unfamiliar, the NEXUS criteria are as follows: 1. Altered Mental Status 2. Use of intoxicants 3. Focal neurological deficit 4. Presence of distracting injuries (fractures, deep soft tissue injuries, etc.) 5. Midline C-spine tenderness Obviously, any patient who meets one or more of the criteria cannot be cleared by physical exam. How many patients brought in from minor MVCs could have the equipment removed based on this simple exam? Might this decrease pain and anxiety in many of these patients? Could it possibly improve throughput times for already taxed emergency departments? MWBoswell, I am glad you're considering this as a topic to research. I hope the assessment is eventually taught in the TNCC course if continued research supports the exam's use by emergency nurses. I don't believe I've ever seen a position statement from the ENA on this topic. I really believe that this will be a topic of increasing interest in the coming years, especially with our aging population.

I didn't even know what an HBCU was until now. Seriously, I really don't think anyone would even consider that when making hiring decisions. If they did, then I wouldn't want to work there anyway. I would be more concerned about the school of nursing's reputation, accreditation (regional and NLN or CCNE), NCLEX pass rates, attrition rates during the program, clinical opportunities, etc. No matter what you decide, I think you'll find the same opportunities when you graduate regardless of your choice of school. Good luck in your studies!

I'm in the fire dept also. I've worked as an emergency nurse for several years and starting NP school in August. I'm 42. I still have twelve more years in the FD, so I guess I'll do both, as I don't plan on giving up the FD retirement. I plan to work part-time ER. PM me if you have any other questions. Best wishes to you in your studies.

Good advice, Lunah. In addition, although I didn't spend a lot of time with the other candidates, stay clear of those who are stressed and experiencing meltdowns. If you've been a medic for a while, then you've survived more stressful situations (real life, I mean). I thought the stress level was about the same as what I felt during the National Registry Paramedic exam, only a much longer duration. Pretty subjective though, I guess.

Congrats on your upcoming CPNE date. I took the CPNE at SRMC in 2005. Very friendly and professional. Some of those working as evaluators worked as educators for area universities. I know one was from KSU. I thought the the whole experience was like the CPNE DVD. It was pretty straight-forward. Not too difficult, but it was clear that if you didn't perform as expected then you would not pass. They did have one moment of leniency though. I forgot to chart the strength of pulses which was required for the area of care. They knew I had assessed them, so they held a quick conference and let it slide, so I passed in three PCS. There were several that I'm pretty sure did not pass. I could tell from the questions they asked that they were just not prepared. The stress was the hardest part, but I found that even that got better after passing the first PCS, which was a pediatric in my case. Feel free to PM or e-mail me if you need to any other info. I'll be glad to help if I'm able.

Congratulations! Have you applied for an ENA scholarship? If not, you should check it out on their website.

The only non-nursing course/exam I have taken through EC is Statistics. I was given credit for it through my BSN program, and it was accepted when I applied to grad school, no questions asked. I would bet that any school would be hesitant regarding the science courses if there's no lab involved. The others may be more widely accepted though. You would probably be best served by contacting your school. Even then, make sure you're talking to someone who knows for sure; someone who has the authority to make decisions. At least then you would be 100% sure.

With your pre-req courses done, it sounds like you're good to go. Don't let another day pass without doing something to work towards your goal. It's a great program for those already having clinical experience, and Florda seems to be EC-friendly for LPNs for now. Not easy by any means, but it provides opportunity where most traditional programs currently do not. As far as testing in Atlanta, it wasn't too bad. There were about eight candidates in my group at SRMC. I know that two of us passed; me and an LPN from Florida. I never found out about anyone else. A couple of the candidates were asking questions that made you think they had not prepared at all. All the evaluators were very nice and professional; most of them worked at Atlanta area colleges and universities as nursing professors. One candidate was there to make his final attempt at the CPNE (I can't remember how many they allow, but talk about stress). Stay clear of publishing companies. As Lunah says, find the study guides you need on eBay. You can find all of your textbooks there too. Or maybe on half.com or amazon. Buy used books, maybe even a previous edition. Very little usually changes from edition to edition, and you'll save a lot of money. I completed all seven NC exams in six months, then waited another six months for the CPNE. The wait is a blessing though; you'll need that time to prepare. Finally, network with people on here who are actual EC grads, but beware of people who present false info as fact. There's always one or two of those lurking around. Also, when in doubt about anything, get the final word from EC and your state's BON.

Anyone speak to the Governor's office yet regarding his latest opinion on HB-475? I know some of you guys don't support it beacuse of the omission of RTs and can't say that I blame you, but what about the others? You guys think he should sign it, and consider it a compromise with the thought that we can try for more next session? After all, there is no shortage of legislators who support you AND EC. Having been a very small part of it, I can say that political activism in nursing works. Maybe not overnight, but headway has been made. Pmdc

I agree that RTs need to be included. But the current legislative session has ended and this is at least a starting point. I think it is far from perfect, as RTs have been slighted and the amount of clinical hours required rivals that of students in traditional programs who don't have to take the CPNE. Hopefully the imperfections can be worked out during the next session. What I do know for sure is that Governor Perdue supports this type of program. The next election is 2010, and it's possible that we could end up with a Governor who isn't quite as supportive. So in my opinion, it might be easier to try to have it ammended later rather than letting this year go by without some kind of resolution, even if it is partial. In the meantime, I plan to try and become involved in making sure the clinical preceptorships (providing Gov. Perdue signs HB-475) are fairly easily accomplished, and plan to write more letters and e-mails. Some have mentioned that their employers may sponsor them. I think that's great, but what about those for whom that is not possible? I would really like to see some local schools establish a program for this; they already have it for RN re-entry students at Kennesaw State, as well as other schools. With the development of such a program with the involvement of GNA, GA BON, GA University System, and Excelsior, EC graduates could avoid problems like the hassle of finding a preceptor, finding a suitable facility, possibly having to get their own liability insurance, and then worrying whether the BON would accept it as an approved clinical when all is said and done. This requirement must be consistent. I still think you should be able to accomplish it through your employer if you wish, but other options should be available. Anyway, I think that the Gov should sign the bill because it would provide a positive outcome for the greatest number of people. RTs definitely have earned their place as far as I'm concerned, but that appears to be out of our hands right now.

What was meant to be a forum to provide support and information for those negatively affected by the recent legislative events in GA has been hijacked by an immature, nurse wannabee who appears to be posting here only to rub salt into their wounds. You should be ashamed, little man. Were you not taught anything about common decency by your parents? Anyway, to all others on this forum: I apologize for having been sidetracked. Any future posts from me will be to provide information related to events in GA and will try to the best of my ability to remain helpful and sincere. And as all of you probably know, HB-475, in its new and improved form has been approved by both the Georgia House and the Senate. It only awaits Governor Perdue's signature and will finally put this issue to rest. I think the compromise reached is a workable solution, and was told by a representative of the GNA last week that they and EC are working on a solution to the problem of how to provide clinical preceptorships.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with speaking up. But when you post some outlandish statements and present them as facts, only to have others post credible, independent sources that prove you to be wrong and you respond by calling it lies, it makes it obvious that you're not here for intelligent debate. It's clear that you are only posting to make inflammatory statements that only serve to hurt those affected by the recent developments in GA. That, my friend, is shameful and is not a trait that is valued in the nursing field. The article posted about your school makes your plight even more sad. You not only have no chance at being accepted by EC, you have apparently chosen a school that has more problems than you ever thought we would discover. Did you think we wouldn't read your previous posts to find out more about you? Even after all of your statements are proven to be not only incorrect, but completely sub-moronic, you continue to make statements like "you do have NC". I am eligible for licensure in every state in the US. How 'bout you? Even those who are just now entering the EC program will have opportunity for licensure in all states except CA. They may need 1-2 years of licensed experience, or maybe a clinical preceptorship, but they are still eligible and will continue to be eligible. So your statement should have been, "you do have 49 out of 50 states". Anyway, I can't help believing that you're just some lonely, middle-aged, recently unemployed guy who happens to be off his meds right now, and has lost control of everything in his life, and, as a result, is sitting in a lawn chair in front of a borrowed computer and has signed on here to anonymously pass your grief and misery on to others with little fear of reprisal and to make yourself feel better; even almost like a man. I say that because some of your posts in your history seem to be focused and even helpful to others. Recently though, they have become quite the opposite, rambling on about some reality that doesn't exist and hurling insults with little angel Smilies at the end. Yeah boy, that makes it okay. I can't help but wonder about what caused the recent change. Rarely do you get to see such a combination of arrogance and ignorance. That's a downright dangerous trait in this field. Thank God you're not in it, and probably never will be. I guess we're stuck with you as long as you have your anonymity and remain an AllNurses member. Without your anonymity to hide behind, I would bet a case of Smithwick's that your a sniveling little coward who wouldn't even open your mouth in the presence of another person.

Son, take your incoherent ramblings and move on. You asked for independent stats and Lunah gave 'em to you within minutes. Now try to be a real man and accept the consequences of your request for unbiased facts. My prediction: You will never make it as a nurse and will disappear from this entire site within a year. There have been many others like you and that always seems to be the case. You're not positively contributing to anything here. And as far as you and EC go, just forget about it! You may say that you reject them, but you're not even qualified to be an EC student, so it's really a non-issue for you and them. You appear to be some wannabe who attends a Florida community college, completing pre-reqs in hopes of one day entering their elite nursing program. Why you chose to post your rants about the "Bush Depression" and "chinese spammers" and how you somehow mentally connect these unrelated random subjects to EC is beyond me, and is probably beyond the scope of most of us here. I worked my butt off in nursing school, and continue to do so while also working as a trauma nurse at a busy trauma center and firemedic in a very busy metro fire department. WHAT DID YOU DO TODAY?