serenity67

I have my national certification in Hospice and Palliative Care Nursing (CHPLN).

The petition, in it's current form, was denied by the VA BON (big surprise. Ugh! ). The fight, however, will continue... and continue... and continue.

Thanks for talking me off the ledge. lol! You make valid points. Also great to hear about the clinical portion for paramedics. I figured they were intense, you know... seeing as paramedics save lives! :)

Ugh... I so agree! I'm sure they mean well, but it does give the impression that Excelsior students are "educationally challenged". I think folks are typing with pure emotion and their brain is woring faster than their typing fingers. I think it is important to focus on the factual reasons that this legislation should pass. Unfortunately, some of the comments add to the misconception that Excelsior is "the easy way out". In regards to some of the opposing comments, am seriously considering making an additional comment (not sure if it's even allowed??) to dispell some of the statements made based on ignorance and incorrect assuptions. Things like, "LPN's do not get clinical experience in med/surg. floors, surgery, OB, psych..." blah, blah, blah. I had rotations in ALL of that. I can't speak to EMT's and respiratory therapists because I don't know how their education process works, but they actively save lives so they MUST have a good deal of formal training. I also think it's important to point out all of Excelsior's awards/recognition and accreditations. This is not an "online diploma-by-mail" kind of deal. It sickens me they way some nurses of certain degree levels look down their noses at others trying to further their careers. I resent the insinuation that I am stupid or uneducated. Grrrrr! Ok. I'm done venting (I think). lol!

Thanks Lunah!

Hi Lunah and all! Thanks for posting on the VA townhall website! I also posted a couple days ago. I was very involved LAST go around in 2008. Unfortunately, things didn't turn out so well back then. I had completely lost hope that things could turn around. I am cautiously optimistic with this new proposed legislation. I wrote a pretty long comment, trying to give a clear picture of the clinical background that many EC students actually have prior to even being accepted into the program, using my own experiences as an example. I agree with many of the posts here that speak to some of the comments that have multiple typos and intelligible sentence structure. I imagine those comments were written with a lot of emotion and spelling/sentence structure fell a bit to the wasteside. I decided to write my comment seperately as a rough draft, edited it, spell checked it then cut and pasted it. It took a while, but (seeing as I LIVE in VA) this legislation is very important to me. Thank you to all of you who posted a comment. Keep your fingers crossed for us here in VA! I had to withdraw from EC last year when the VA BON made their changes. Let's hope things get fixed so I can re-enroll.

]Hi everyone! Although it "seems" that there has been no further mention of the situation here in Virginia created by the VA BON's new legislation, don't think there aren't things happening behind the scenes. In order to preserve the efforts I will not openly discuss the details (but you can PM me if you'd like). What I need now is additional info. I am trying to locate names of RN grads currently employed in Virginia hospitals, and other medical facilities. I need to know names of SPECIFIC HOSPITALS, ETC. that are CURRENTLY EMPLOYING EXCELSIOR COLLEGE GRADS. it is IMPERATIVE that I get this information ASAP. If you know anyone or any facility that fits this description, could you please PM me so we can discuss it further. ANY HELP will be greatly appreciated! ]MANY THANKS!! ]-Nikki

]Both your and the post that followed you make excellent points. I didn't mean to imply that only LPN's have a right to an EC curriculum, and I'm sorry if it came across that way.In reality, I can only speak to this issue based on being an LPN, since that's all I know first hand, however I would very much appreciate help from other students who are paramedics and from students who have completed at least 50% of a traditional RN curriculum. I believe we are ALL QUALIFIED and there is an argument to be made for ALL OF US, but it is going to take a group of folks from each discipline to make a collective argument. That being said, I would LOVE to here from other students that are NOT LPN'S. We all have to work together on this.

]You're spot on LunahRN! Back when VA passed legislation to no longer grant RN licensure to graduates of EC I brought up this very point, however not many people seemed to take it seriously. I called the NCSBN directly back then and the nurse I spoke to IMMEDIATELY referred me to this research paper. She completely discredited ANY prior experience of the LPN, stating it is the position of the NCSBN that clinicals need to be repeated due to the difference in scopes of practice, and that they had distributed the position paper to all the individual states BON. Those of us who are currently LPN's would beg to differ that we need to be re-taught EVERYTHING... just the bridge that covers what we aren't currently licensed to do. That is what needs to be the focus as we move forward. Legislators need to be educated on the differences between the "inexperienced PRE-LICENSURE nursing student vs. the CURRENTLY LICENSED LPN to RN student". The position paper, even in it's TITLE point to "pre-licensure nursing programs"... if we can prove the point that we are NOT PRE-LICENSED students therefore are exempt from this study, we can then disprove their argument that we aren't qualified to be granted the very RN licensure that we have worked so hard for and deserve.

]I have had a moment or two where I have considered this. I wasn't really trying to get a BSN at this time, seeing as I was just getting started with EC and have sooooo many prereq's to complete just for the associate RN. I'm still catching my breath from this EC blow at the moment, but thanks for the suggestion! :)

]I know what you mean! I was SHOCKED! I am working on my written response to her... lately it seems every email I write to these elected officials turns into a lengthy research paper! I want to "educate" them about the Excelsior nursing program. At this time, all the nursing programs in my area require you to be a fulltime student after you finish your prereq's and enter into the nursing portion. That means I cannot go back to school at this time. I can't afford to pay my mortgage, car payment, etc. without a fulltime paycheck, not to mention my job will PAY for my education... but ONLY if I'm a fulltime employee. Sooooooooo... I've got PLENTY OF TIME to spar with legislators. ]I said in the beginning that I'm CONVINCED the basis for this line of legislation is a result of the NCSBN and the position paper that was written about "distance learning". Once California won their court case and the appeal against EC there has been a trickle down effect from state to state. That trickle has become a steady stream, and it will only be a matter of time before it flows through all the remaining states, unless there is some sort of revolution. Many folks think EC should just create clinicals for everyone in every state, but in doing it would be like admitting their program was substandard. I think there needs to be a counter research paper in response to the NCSBN's paper. That's where the real fight needs to be... they are the true "head" of the beast that is against this model of learning.

]Howdy All!! ]As all of you know, the VA BON meeting was a bust. They didn't budge on the issue rearding EC grads. Back before the meeting I had emailed my governor (Tim Kaine). I FINALLY got a response from the secretary of health and human services yesterday. I am in the process of writing her back to address the points she made with ACTUAL FACTS. She obviously just fed me the same lines that the VA BON fed HER. She doesn't have a CLUE that her information is incorrect. Also, the VA BON keeps blaming EC, saying they held open forums on a few dates prior to this new legislation and that EC never showed up. The TRUTH is the legislation they were proposing was a curriculum change for IN STATE SCHOOLS... that is the reason no one from EC attended any of these forums. WHY ON EARTH would they show up... they are an OUT OF STATE SCHOOL?? Anyway, here is a copy of the letter: ] ]Thank you for your recent letter to Governor Kaine concerning clinical hours in nursing education programs. Since the regulation of health care is within the work of my office, the Governor has forwarded your letter to me for response. In response to concerns that some nursing students do not have adequate clinical skills to be safely practicing when they graduate from nursing school, the Board of Nursing proposed amended regulations to require registered nursing programs to include at least 500 clinical hours in their curriculum. There was opportunity to comment on the proposal from February 5, 2007, to April 6, 2007, and a public hearing was held on March 20, 2007. Comments received from some educators and employers indicated that 500 clinical hours was inadequate to prepare students for entry into practice as an RN, but the Board elected to retain the proposed minimal requirement. The proposed amendments became final on April 2, 2008. The role of a state board of nursing is to ensure that graduates of an approved nursing program are clinically prepared to practice, and we understand that the Excelsior's on-line program has not been approved by any state board of nursing. Many other states also require a minimal number of clinical hours for any nursing program. The amended requirement does not adversely affect any programs in Virginia or any nurses already licensed. In fact, Virginia has approved three online programs with the proper number of clinical hours, and there are online programs at Indiana State University and Mountain State University - all of which are approved nursing education programs. At its meeting on September 16, 2008, the Board considered additional information regarding distance learning nursing education programs. Other than a request from Excelsior College, there were no other objections or requests for extension of time, and the Board voted to uphold its decision of May 20, 2008. Any student enrolled in a distance learning nursing education program that does not meet the clinical requirements must complete their program by December 31, 2009 in order to be eligible for licensure in Virginia either by examination or by endorsement. There are two options for students who are enrolled at Excelsior and will not be able to complete the program by the December deadline. The first is to request that the College arrange for precepted RN clinical experiences for their students, in order to be in compliance with the Board of Nursing regulations. The second option is to transfer to one of the three on-line nursing education programs in Virginia or the one out-of-state on-line program that does meet the clinical requirements of the Board of Nursing regulations. Below is a list of the schools and their contact information: Northern Virginia Community College, Springfield, Virginia Contact: Florence Richman Phone: 1-703-822-6579 VCCS Commonwealth Program, Midlothian, Virginia, Contact: Barbara Laird Phone: 1-804-622-8726 Southside Regional Medical Center, Petersburg, Virginia, Contact: Cynthia Parsons Phone: 1-804-862-5801 Indiana State University, Terre Haute, Indiana, Contact: Marcia Miller, Phone: 1-812-237-333 Thank you for writing and sharing your concerns. I hope you will be able to complete your education within the prescribed timeframe and will be qualified for licensure. Marilyn B. Tavenner Secretary of Health and Human Resources 1111 East Broad Street Richmond, Virginia 23219

]Although I live in VA (a state ALSO denying licensure to EC grads), I have been very interested in what has been going on in GA as well. I have come to the sad conclusion that the critical nursing shortage is, in part, perpetuated by the very boards of nursing that govern the profession. It's insane!

]Nope, at this point I am not going have enough time to complete the program. I still plan to fight alongside EC for the future of this program though, if for no other reason than the pure principle of it all. I'm so sick of beaurocrats making decisions based on tunnel vision and the argument that there is only ONE TRUE WAY to accomplish something. We live in a world of progression and technology. The antiquated ideas of old desperately need revision. It's not like I can attend a brick and mortar school in my area right now, so I've got nothing but TIME ON MY HANDS to fight the system... at least for now.

]I went to the BON meeting in VA. They let EC speak for 5 minutes, let the three students (myself included) speak for 2 minutes, opened the floor for a motion by any board member that wanted to extend the completion date, and without missing a beat said "it appears no one has made a motion so the original date will stand". It all felt as if they were simply going through the official motions, all the while never intending to even CONSIDER a change. It was such a cold, sterile environment.

not to be a downer, but i would definitely take it seriously. i say this only because it seems to be a national trend. when it happened in va i called the ncsbn and it was made clear to me that their official stand was against the type of distance learning that substituted a cpne in place of clinical hours. they further stated that, while they do not tell individual states what to do, they have distributed a "position paper" to all the state boards that clearly supports their reasons for their stance against programs like ec. i remember telling folks this when it was first happening in va and some folks perhaps felt i was overeacting just a bit... but then ga happened... so should you take tx seriously???? absolutely! while it may not be the first time it's come up in tx, it very well could be the final time (just my humble opinion).

hello everyone! the time has come... the meetings with the va and ga bon's are this week! i am hopeful that everyone will attend the meeting in their states so we can address this issue, instead of once again letting the board members make life altering decisions for us without our voices being represented. it doesn't matter if you are a new student, a student nearing graduation, or an ec grad that is already licensed. we need everyone, as a large turnout will make more of an impact. i have spoken to the assistant dean of the ec nursing program and she is going to be there (i believe the dean will be there too). therefore, it will also give you a chance to get face to face answers to any questions you have about the future of our program. so please send me an rsvp asap and let me know if you are coming. here are the meeting times/locations: for va: date: tuesday, september 16, 2008 location: va board of nursing perimeter center 9960 mayland drive, suite 300 richmond virginia 23233-1463 (804) 367-4515 directions to the board time: 11:00 am (please try to be there between 10:00 am and 10:30 am) for ga: thursday september 18th, 1:00pm the board of nursing’s location is macon , ga. the address can be found on the web if you are planning to attend: http://sos.georgia.gov/plb/rn/. based on the large number of inquiries about the meeting, the board staff have arranged to meet in a larger space, next door to their main facility on coliseum driv e. the meeting is open to the public but there is not an open comment period on the agenda. gna/spac & excelsior is collaborating on the presentation and discussing how best to allow the graduates and students voices to be heard

]YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Congratulations Zimsaint!!!!!!!!!!! I'm SOOOOO HAPPY for you!!!!!!!

]Great news! With MD being part of my tri-state area here in VA this news gives me a little bit more hope!

]I TOTALLY agree with you about there being a complete misunderstanding about distance learning programs like EC, both with the reasons WHY it is the only avenue for some, as well as how qualified you have to be to even pass the program in it's entirety. I'm still trying to figure out the "few bad apples" part... does anyone have record of EC graduates being any less qualified than a new RN grad? Is there documentation to support this argument? ] ]Here in VA, the BON is hung up on a specific NUMBER of clinical hours in the curriculum. Their new law requires a minimum of 400 hours for LPN's and a minimum of 500 hours for RN's. I was just "curious" so I did the math for my personal situation and here is what I came up with: ] ]Clinical hours in my LPN curriculum= 659 hrs. Clinical hours WORKED IN THE FIELD= 39,569 hrs. ]TOTAL COMBINED= 40,228 hours ]this makes the new law look EVEN MORE REDICULOUS when my experience written out in this form!

]Just be sure to keep a close eye on your state BON for meeting minutes and introductions for new legislations that might disqualify the distance learning program you decide on. In Virginia, the new law doesn't name EC "specifically"...instead they wrote it like this: 18VAC90-20-120(E) A nursing education program preparing for licensure as a practical nurse shall provide a minimum of 400 hours of direct client care supervised by qualified faculty. A nursing education program preparing for licensure as a registered nurse shall provide a minimum of 500 hours of direct client care supervised by qualified faculty. ]Obviously EC does not provide 500 hours of clinicals in their program, so they will no longer be accepted. ]Of course, there is no mention of any portion of one's clinical hours from their LPN program carrying over in any way towards earning your RN degree, not to mention credit for years worked out in the field. I was sitting here doing the math and here is what I came up with for myself: ]Clinical hours in my LPN curriculum= 659 hrs. ]Clinical hours WORKED IN THE FIELD= 39,569 hrs. ]TOTAL COMBINED= 40,228 hours ]looks EVEN MORE REDICULOUS when I see it written out in that form!

]I think the new law in GA is more vague, which MAY work in your favor when you confront them at your meeting next month. How can EC be out of "compliance" with a rule that states no "clear" curriculum requirement for clinicals? Here in VA that "500 hours" thing was just a way to completely shut the door to EC. I pulled out my 20 year old transcript from LPN school and added up my clinical hours... 659 total hours... and now VA wants me to do 500 MORE??? Good Lord! I already SURPASSED the required amount of hours that they are requiring for new RN students by 159 hours, not to mention my 19+ years of experience working in the field. As you can see, it STILL is mind boggling to me...

]It definitely apparent that this trend is going to continue and YES it would be ideal if BON's and EC could come to some sort of agreement regarding local preceptors. I wouldn't have a problem going to a brick and mortar school if I had one near me that provided an LPN to RN bridge program that was offered in a way that I could still work my fulltime job. I hear folks frequently saying how "they did this" and "they did that" so I should be able to do it too... kind of like when our parents told us their childhood stories of "walking 2 miles back and forth to school AND home for lunch everyday... BAREFOOT and in the SNOW"... ]I live in an area where the cost of living is out of this world, at 41 years old I obviously have plenty of bills, my husband and I have 3 kids ALL CURRENTLY in college at the same time ($$$), my job WILL pay for my education ($4500/yr.) but ONLY if I continue to work fulltime while in school... talk about being stuck between a rock and a hard place! ]My husband took an accelerated BSN program while he was still active duty USAF and attended a 4 hour class one night a week for 18 months. I wish someone in this area would come up with a program like that for LPN to RN. I'm so frustrated today that I found myself saying "just forget it... maybe I'll just get out of nursing altogether" but when I seriously try to imagine being ANYTHING else... ]All I want to do is nursing. ] ]Sorry for the pitty party... just feeling really discouraged tonight.

]I suppose if I'm honest, I'm really just upset about my own educational limbo. We DO have a nursing shortage and we do need help... even if it is assisted via qualified foreign nurses. I also don't have a problem with performing clinical hours, however at this time they aren't offered as part of the EC curriculum here in VA. ]I think what bothers me more than anything is the fact that the "missing link" to the LPN vs. Associate RN is the theory of "critical thinking" piece, not the clinical skills. I realize the two are related to some degree, but I think those of us who have worked for many years under the direction of an RN have grown in that line of thinking just by years of clinical experience. ]It would be nice if there could be some sort of acceptable "years worked as a licensed medical person" requirement prior to enrollment to the EC program that would make it more palatable for state BON's. In VA the new law states that an LPN curriculum must include 400 hours of clinicals and an RN program must include 500 hours of clinicals. The thought of having to complete an ADDITIONAL 500 HOURS seems a bit extreme to me. There are many things in an RN curriculum that I have ALREADY been LICENSED to do. Certain skills stay the same regardless of the difference in scopes of practice. ]I can only speak for myself, but it is unfathomable for me to understand why I am granted a license as an LPN, then told I need to repeat a "complete" clinical rotation of 500 hours to be trained to do a good deal of what I ALREADY have a license to do now... it's just mind boggling. I think the nursing profession has a multitude of issues that make advancement difficult. Anyway, sorry for rambling.

]This is probably a stupid question, but did you call EC to inquire about the reason for this letter being sent to you mid-year of your current enrollment? If so, what did they say?