Phasing out LPN's.

I agree with one of the other posts. No matter your title you should be proud of yourself and others for choosing this wonderful profession. I was a cna, cmt and there were plenty of nurses at the time that loved to see me come to work and felt safe. I wouldnt know what to do if i had my patient load, charting, admits/readmits, treatments, and the list goes on, and not have a cmt or cna to help. I would make that my last shift I do know that. All I can say is check your facility policy before you plan to practice there, if they are using cmt's then you know you shouldnt be there. You more than likely couldnt handle it anyway. I work in LTC, when the cmt makes a mistake she/he receives the med error. However, if I am the one wrote the order and for whatever reason is an error, it is then my and the med tech's problem. We are not all perfect and im not saying some of us claim to be. I believe there is a place and a need for every title in nursing. We should respect all of them. There are plenty of places to work and you shouldnt work anywhere if you dont feel comfy or confident you can do your best, thats why we have this wonderful thing called "choice". I choose to work on a team. My team is made of physicians, Rns, Lpns,Cmts,Cnas. Our focus is patient care, the quality of this care is based solely on each team member giving 100%. I respect all. sorry so long...shell

It is my understanding and I did some research on Med Techs. They are supposed to be licensed by the pharmacy board. They can pass meds but NOT narcotics and there still has to be a nurse present to oversee the patients. All they do is pass meds. There is much more to nursing then that. If a facility hires them they do not take the place of a nurse. They just pass meds. I have not had the experience of being in a facility that uses them but I do know the day is coming. Mostly in part to the nursing shortage. There are simply not enough nurses to do the job. I was intimidated by them as much as the next. Nurses get territorial and rightfully so. We worked hard for what we have. We put up with alot from both ends and we are the ones that have NO support. No backing and are policed by everyone and there sister if you know what I mean. I am in management now but when med techs first come around I was a floor nurse. I was scared to death as nurses dont have great job security anyways. I immediately went searching for what, when, how. etc... After my search I realized my job wasnt in danger. If someone wants to come in and do that 3 hour med pass for me then WOOHOOOOOO!! Anyways I have not seen it grow in leaps and bounds. I dont worry about it and now that Im in management I dont hear even a discussion about med techs taking over the nurses place if anything.. I hear talk about them freeing up the nurse so she can be a nurse!!! and of course do her paperwork!!!

You got it right on the money. Our nurses sometimes are so overwhelmed by paper work, telephone calls, families, CNAs asking questions, needing something, pressure from "up above", etc...etc...I pass meds for 36 residents. I don't do anything else. Just pass meds and believe me it's daunting. Replace a nurse? I don't think so. My plate is full.

It is my understanding and I did some research on Med Techs. They are supposed to be licensed by the pharmacy board. They can pass meds but NOT narcotics and there still has to be a nurse present to oversee the patients. All they do is pass meds. There is much more to nursing then that. If a facility hires them they do not take the place of a nurse. They just pass meds. I have not had the experience of being in a facility that uses them but I do know the day is coming. Mostly in part to the nursing shortage. There are simply not enough nurses to do the job. I was intimidated by them as much as the next. Nurses get territorial and rightfully so. We worked hard for what we have. We put up with alot from both ends and we are the ones that have NO support. No backing and are policed by everyone and there sister if you know what I mean. I am in management now but when med techs first come around I was a floor nurse. I was scared to death as nurses dont have great job security anyways. I immediately went searching for what, when, how. etc... After my search I realized my job wasnt in danger. If someone wants to come in and do that 3 hour med pass for me then WOOHOOOOOO!! Anyways I have not seen it grow in leaps and bounds. I dont worry about it and now that Im in management I dont hear even a discussion about med techs taking over the nurses place if anything.. I hear talk about them freeing up the nurse so she can be a nurse!!! and of course do her paperwork!!!

:angryfire I have been an LPN for 36 years. For the last 20 I have heard talk

of phasing out LPN's. When I read the local paper all I see is CNA, and

CMA ads. For all my years I have been a charge nurse or in charge.

just exactly what does the medical community think these largely untrained persons will take the place of LPN's and they won't have to pay them.

Well, I hope and pray that this does not happen. Anyone out there agree.

Or do you think LPN's should be phased out and there just be Rn's and

cna's.

I don't think LPNs should be phased out. I finished LPN school on 1978 and they were talking about it then next year. So far they have not been successful and I hope they won't be. I think that LPNs and RN,ADs as well as BSNs should maintain their positions. I am an RN now, and have been since 1982, and BSN since 1995. They were trying to make Associate Degree nurses like LPNs, but that didn't work either, and I hope it doesn't. All of us are needed and wanted by facilities and patients.

I don't think LPNs should be phased out. I finished LPN school on 1978 and they were talking about it then next year. So far they have not been successful and I hope they won't be. I think that LPNs and RN,ADs as well as BSNs should maintain their positions. I am an RN now, and have been since 1982, and BSN since 1995. They were trying to make Associate Degree nurses like LPNs, but that didn't work either, and I hope it doesn't. All of us are needed and wanted by facilities and patients.

Do you have any idea who or what organization is behind the efforts to phase out LPN's?

Where would one begin to voice their opinion on this subject, where it would matter?

LPN's need to become more politically active and media savy. Our governing bodies need to be out there selling us to the public.

My former governing body had a spokesperson who made a point of getting our value out to the media, everytime there was a report of a "nurses shortage", they would point out how many LPN's in the province were underutilized and not allowed by hospitals to practice to their full scope. It takes a while but we were becoming more valued and more utilized, the Minister of Health even managed to send a delegate to our AGM.

Moved to another province and never hear a peep in the media from this provinces governing body.

From what I've seen, the RN associations are behind a lot of the fearmongering. They express our concerns about everyone not having access to an RN in hospital. They express concerns re med errors and staff not having an RN. But the vast majority of floor RN's don't seem to share these concerns. What the floor RN's are worried about is how many RN's and LPN's it takes to run a unit. I've worked 50/50 units and 75LPN 25RN units.

We've all worked with nurses of either designation who's practices are questionable, so its not a safety issue, it comes down to money and job protection. RN associations are very vocal, media savy, and protective of their turf. They are bigger than LPN associations and know when to flex their political muscles.

But the majority of the "phasing out" talk seems to have begun about the same time as the BScN education began. It is the drive to be seen as "professionals" that is behind a lot of it.

:angryfire I have been an LPN for 36 years. For the last 20 I have heard talk

of phasing out LPN's. When I read the local paper all I see is CNA, and

CMA ads. For all my years I have been a charge nurse or in charge.

just exactly what does the medical community think these largely untrained persons will take the place of LPN's and they won't have to pay them.

Well, I hope and pray that this does not happen. Anyone out there agree.

Or do you think LPN's should be phased out and there just be Rn's and

cna's.

I too have been an LPN for twenty years. I don't think you can replace experience with a title. A hospital close by got rid of their LPN's last March, with the attitude don't let the door hit you. They had the option to work as techs! With the nursing shortage why would you want a whole group of nurses, yes folks that's what the N in LPN stands for to disappear?

Do you have any idea who or what organization is behind the efforts to phase out LPN's?

Where would one begin to voice their opinion on this subject, where it would matter?

It will never matter until society stops judging people by their title instead of their ability.

There are unlicensed people passing meds in Assisted living, MH/MR group homes...they are not being properly trained to know about side effects and when should their clients go to the emergency room...it's a mess!

I got my caregiving start in MR/DD homes. My med pass training was about 15 minutes!!! Heres the chart, match the chart with the card (meds were carded) nd initial here. Thats iit!!! We gave a wide variety of drugs, but in particular tons of anti-seizure meds and drugs to help control behvior (homes were for DD/MR with behavioral issues). Scary isnt it? Who is going to monitor this? The pts cant tell, most I cared for had IQs from 20-30.

Laura

In some assisted-living facilities in my state, unlicensed caregivers can become medication assistants practically off the streets. I'm not joking. An ALF can hire someone who's never even had CNA training, give them three days' orientation, and turn 'em loose in the med room. They're paid $7.50 an hour to pass meds to as many as 50 residents, and they give everything except IVs and IMs....they even draw up and administer INSULIN!! They also give PRN narcotics, antipsychotics, and anxiolytics.

This is why I didn't stay with ALF nursing very long.......I worked hard for my license, and I'd like to keep it. :stone

In Pennsylvania, nursing assistants (not certified) can pass out meds at assisted living/personal care homes. But certified nursing assistants (and you have to be to work in a long term care nursing home) are not allowed to. Go figure.

Either way, as a CNA, I would not want the additional responsibility of passing out meds. I guess to some, this makes them feel more important, but I vote for safety above ego. And in addition, I fail to see how a CNA who is going 90 miles an hour with basic CNA responsibilities can find time to pass out meds.

Crazy idea, in my humble opinion.

In Pennsylvania, nursing assistants (not certified) can pass out meds at assisted living/personal care homes.

Soon as i check that out, there's yet another letter of alarm to get started on.

Granted, I'm biased; I was an LPN for 12 years. I think they're a valuable part of the health care team, and depending on the institution, can do just about anything. They don't require "babysitting" or the close monitoring that some RN's seem to insist that they do, and the majority are quite capable and knowledgeable about their patients and their care, some even more so than RN's (that was one of several things that made me move on; I've worked with a lot of really um, screwball RN's, and I thought to myself, "If they could become RN's, I KNOW I can). I know the hospital that I work at now, uses them only as PCT's (Patient Care Technicians). Basically they're used pretty much like treatment nurses in LTC facilities, with the addition of doing other tasks such as assisting docs with line placements and complex wound dressings, etc. I think they're used the same way on the floor at my hospital, as well (though I don't see why they can't just carry patient assignments, God knows we need the staffing).

I worked at places that phased out LPN's; I interviewed at one place, and they didn't make that fact known to me until after I got my foot in the door. I ended up working in a "transitional care unit" for 2 1/2 years (thankfully only part time), which i honestly think was nothing more than a place to dump med surg patients and classify the facility as a LTC to justifiy the horrible staffing.

The unit was since closed down (just desserts). But anyway, any other LPN"s have similar horror tales?