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Discussion

No nurses notes

Our hospital has recently switched to Epic and since the switch we have been asked to not do nurses notes unless absolutely necessary. We had Meditech prior to the switch and while notes weren't mandatory, they were highly encouraged. Their reasoning is because patients can see what we write. I personally liked notes, because I felt it was easier to get insight in to the pt and their status, plan of care, progress, etc. I know we chart assessments, but they aren't detailed. Has anyone else been told not to do notes?

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When went over to computers in 2012, NN were not deemed as importance, as in your case, Lilac.

 

In the following eight years until my retirement in 2020, I kept the narratives going on anything which I believed note-worthy. My narratives were utilized in several circumstances and I received support and positive feedback from both peers and the higher ups.

Here in France we use a system called DX Care. For year's we've had "transmissions ciblées" or "target report". In other words we only document ourselves for an identified problem. If all is going well we write nothing, so "pain free, no nausea, vitals stable" etc. have all disappeared from our vocabulary and we write much less than in times gone by.  I prefer it.

I would stress that our society and health care system are nowhere near as litigation orientated as the US seems to be, which is perhaps a bonus for us. 

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I personally liked notes, because I felt it was easier to get insight in to the pt and their status, plan of care, progress, etc. I know we chart assessments, but they aren't detailed.

 

They can be accurate and as detailed as necessary. I understand what you mean, though—looking at a chart now kind of reads like, "someone dutifully went though and clicked the boxes" rather than attended to *this* specific patient.  On the other hand, a lot of narrative charting had also become duplication, low-importance items, repetitive, and rather generic, in the same bland way that clicking a box feels to you right now. (Imagine years ago....people would dutifully go around and hand write or later type something like "resting with eyes closed, resps even/unlabored, NAD" on *every* chart. It very much eventually had the same feel you're talking about now, which is "did anyone actually look at *this* patient? )

Unfortunately I see the benefit of  making chart reading as bland as possible given....uh, things. Everything. People. 

 

In epic when you chart on your care plan it generates a generic note that you can modify. I put most of my narrative charting in that note since it backs up what you're doing for the patient to meet their goals. I use progress note to put anything else important in it (change in status, critical labs, things that people need to know regarding discharge etc.)

 

They can't tell you not to do a note, but they are right to make sure all employees are aware that patients can read all of the notes. Be mindful of the language you use, state facts, all that good stuff.

I have been advised to reduce my notes, in part because providers don't want to spend time reading them.

I have been a nurse for 41 years, so there have been many changes in charting. However, nothing can replace thorough documentation for being an informed caregiver.

If charting by exception or checklists do not provide sufficient details about essential medical information, the only way to ensure that others have access to it is through proper documentation. I believe this is a matter of basic common sense.

I believe the best way to determine whether the right amount of information is provided when opening a chart is to note whether you encounter surprises during the patient visit.

Thoughts or moments such as, "I did not know that." "I should have been aware of this," "It would have been really useful if this information had been available before I met the patient," and "Why wasn't this noted?"

Haven't we all thought this at some point?

Have you ever been involved in any litigation? If so, you know that documenting appropriate information is crucial.

You do not need to record the information indicated in your exception tick boxes, but it is essential to document key details. This will help ensure that the next provider can deliver consistent, safe, and effective care, contributing to a smooth flow of care.

Also, if you're concerned about the patient accessing a specific note, there is a legal method to restrict its visibility.

Epic user here! 

In my hospital, we are not required to write a note at the end of our shift (prior to 2021, we were). However, it is HIGHLY encouraged to write one. If I work an 12 hour shift, I automatically write a note. If I work 4-8 hours, I only write a note if something significant changed. 

I've never been told not to make notes due to patients seeing them in MyChart. 

As an Epic user I think this "no notes" plan is ill- advised and will change after it bites them in the behind a couple of times. I would continue to chart information that needs to be there, taking care to make everything factual. The visibility has made me more careful about stating dispassionate facts: no longer "patient was upset about..." but "patient stated (direct quote in quotation marks)". I think overall it has made me more attentive to defensible documentation. And as another member noted there is a button to click that hides a note from the patient, that states reading this note could cause harm to someone. We generally use this for details related to mandated reporting, I.e. kid being checked out for abuse and the abuser may have access to their mychart. In the end I always remember I could end up in court years down the road with only my notes to refresh my memory, and it is my hard earned license to maintain.

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