New entry-level Masters program at U of A!!

The previous poster stated:

"One things I was not happy about it is your clinical hours are not set up for you. For some courses you will be expected to go into the community and find your own hosts at local hospitals. They mentioned that students have never had problems finding these hours in the past because the UofA program has such a good reputation."

This is fascinating and suggests one of the following, or a combination of several:

-The UofA College of Nursing no longer has the resources (budget and manpower) to secure enough clinical hours for the MEPN students, and that all spaces are filled by the traditional BSN student population.

-The UofA College of Nursing may not have such the stellar reputation with in the Southern Arizona community as they themselves believe....

-The UofA College of Nursing has burned its bridges with a number of community institutions that very few health care organizations want to enter into agreements leading to student clinical experiences.

I think it is ridiculous that MEPN students should have to pay graduate tuition and then source their own clinical experiences. What a headache. You know, for all their self declared "excellence," "prominence," and "reputation," the UofA college of Nursing ought to take a hard look in the mirror.

The UofA CON is broke. One of the primary reasons for advancing the Accelerated BSN into a MEPN is simply to charge more for the same program, even though the degree quality and curriculum is essentially the same.

Before deciding to apply/interview to become a MEPN guineau pig, you ought to ask the UofA CON to provide a list of current students in the last class of the Accelerated BSN program as references. You will learn a ton about the internal strife, dysfunction, and mediocrity that will cost you more than $7,000 per semester.

Good luck!!

As a graduate of the ABSN I can second all that giardiafan is saying. Also, I'm a Tucson native and have heard for many years that quite a few unit managers and doctors prefer to hire and work with RNs from Pima than UA, mainly due to their clinical experience. It's that experience that allows for you to make connections for futures jobs and lets you decide what kind of nursing you like best. The UA is still riding on a reputation of old, which is too bad. I personally feel that the nursing profession as a whole needs to phase out the ADN for BSN for all entry level nursing education. (opps side note!)

I would be very cautious before committing to this program. Many of the Tucson area hospitals are not hiring new grads anymore. They are on hiring freezes and layoffs. When I went into school 4 years ago, hospitals were offering sign on bonuses, moving expenses and giving raises, now we're not even getting cost of living increases! And my insurance went up, again. Of course this may change (hopefully) in the next few years, but with AZ cutting AHCCCS funding to hospitals, there are less people in the hospitals, reinbursements are down and hospitals are cutting everywhere they can to keep the adminstrators happy and making $$.

I'm very disappointed to hear they are trying to make the student set up their own experience. Unless you know someone in the field or have connections you are at a great disadvantage. The hospital I work at, everyday we have students and its not unusual for a RN to have 2 students at a time with them. RNs don't get paid for this extra work and quite a few on my unit refuse to take students. You are competing with NAU, GCU, Pima, and UA traditional program students and there is just not enough clinical time or spaces for all of these students. I don't know why they can't set this up. They've been doing it for the ABSN students. Like this is different?!

FYI-When I applied to the ABSN I also applied to the traditional program. It was my second time applying and I was applying everywhere (NAU, GCU Pima). I received a call from the ladies in the office saying that "I can't apply to them both, it's one or the other". Well, I called the Dean, and you CAN apply to them both as there is nothing to say that you can't. The difference is of course that it is slower paced, allows you for more study time and a life outside of school. And you WILL be placed for clinicals. You might be the oldest, most life experienced student in your class, but its still a BSN!

Ah what an interesting development. When I asked at the info session if students had had trouble finding their own clinical hours we were told that they had not in the past. Based on what I am reading here it sounds like this is hasn't been done in the past... so really they have no basis for their answer. I am extremely concerned about this. My husband is in NP school (through Samford, not UA) and has to find his own internships and it has not been a pleasant experience.

I am still going to apply, probably to the MEPN and the BSN. My first choice was to go to PIMA but they are currently backed up for admission till 2013 and I really don't want to wait that long. Does anyone know of any other options here in Tucson. I can't seem to find any. Phoenix has some possibilities, but the only accelerated program is at GCU and that program seems pretty expensive as well. I know ASU doesn't have an accelerated program and I just straight up cannot afford the NAU option.

Maybe they were talking about the MSN or doctoral student when it comes to clinical placement? Were they specific at all? There would have been no time for us to seek out our own placement what with the class lectures and homework that was crammed into the 14 months. NAU is less than UA for a BSN and for MSN. GCU is expensive because it's a private school. Pima goes through their list pretty quickly as a girl I work with was on for 2012 and they called her, moved her up the spring 2010. She said, people cancel, flunk out all the time.

I'm sure someone has said this already but this isn't a "new" program. It's their 2nd degree BSN program just now it costs 10K more and you get an MSN instead of BSN. Before you get excited, the MSN doesn't mean anything. You still start out at a hospital at the same point as an ADN. If you want to be an advance practice nurse you still have to do another program after. Check out U of A's BSN to DNP program and then look at the MSN to DNP program. The courses needed are exactly the same. I suppose if you get the MSN and then find somewhere to get an educator certificate you could teach at the CC level after a little RN experience. This was done because the hospital sponsorships went away and they need people to be able to pay for their program. You can't get financial aid for a 2nd Bachelor's but you can for a master's.

You can't get financial aid for a 2nd Bachelor's but you can for a master's.

You most certianly can get financial aid for a second bachelors...I did, as well as almost every single classmate of mine in my Accelerated BSN!

Not that it really pertains to this thread, I just didn't want anyone to not pursue a second bachelor degree because of false information :-)

I should have specified. MANY people can not get financial aid for 2nd BA degrees because there is a lifetime max for undergrad financial aid. You can almost always get loans but the federal programs have limits. You are not allowed to just borrow and borrow and borrow.

Lifetime limits (beginning 2008-2009) Student Level

& Dependency StatusMaximum Stafford

(subsidized and unsubsidized)Maximum SubsidizedDependent undergraduate$31,000$23,000Independent undergraduate$57,500$23,000Graduate/Professional$138,500$65,500Medical$224,000$65,500

The graduate debt limit includes loans received for undergraduate study.

If you reach your lifetime loan limit, you cannot receive any more of that type of loan. If you exceed your limit, aid already disbursed will be billed back. You will have to find alternate ways to finance your education. Therefore it is to your advantage to borrow only what you need for educational expenses, and to keep track of your cumulative debt. OFA advisors are happy to work with you to find ways to minimize your borrowing.

Maybe they were talking about the MSN or doctoral student when it comes to clinical placement? Were they specific at all? There would have been no time for us to seek out our own placement what with the class lectures and homework that was crammed into the 14 months. NAU is less than UA for a BSN and for MSN. GCU is expensive because it's a private school. Pima goes through their list pretty quickly as a girl I work with was on for 2012 and they called her, moved her up the spring 2010. She said, people cancel, flunk out all the time.

So i called the school today and from what i understand clinicals are arranged by the program. I wonder why they would say otherwise at the info session. I'm sooo confused

So does anyone know if this program qualifies as an actual MSN that would grant you entry into a Post-Master's NP Certificate program, or would you have to go get a seperate MSN afterwards before getting into an NP program???

It is not an MSN. I posted several months back that this program appears kind of like a scam to me, but that is up to the applicant to decipher. It personally was not any thing I was interested in, as I wish to pursue education past the bachelor level of nursing. To do nurse practitioner at ASU for example, you must have a BSN. You will not have a BSN, you will have this MS degree. I do not know how this translates, but what I do know is it isn't worth the 35K risk to me to find out. I will do an accelerated program for BSN and take the traditional "safe" route to graduate nursing education.

The entire application process at U of A seems like one enormous headache...I didn't feel dealing with the migraine---as the process elsewhere is far more organized with many fewer "what-ifs".

Good luck to each of you who do apply!

I completely agree with the previous post by abvincent1. The 'new' MEPN degree is nothing more than the previous accelerated BSN program with a few more academic units inserted into specific courses. The only major difference is that there is now an actual independent pharmacology course. In previous years, the UofA CON attempted to integrate pharmacology into every other coursework. Then the admin+instructors told students we were responsible for learning pharma, although most teachers didn't bother to teach it.

Anyways, the MEPN is a hollow grad degree that takes you to the same place that the BSN does: the RN license. The UofA only transitioned to a grad program for two reasons:

1) they can charge more tuition and hence, receive more revenue.

2) accelerated BSN students were disappointed to earn just another bachelor's degree after entering the program with one. Unfortunately, the quality of coursework is no better. The first MEPN class will be subjected to the same amateurish, Powerpoint driven year of lectures and ultimate boredom that accelerated BSN students were.

In the end, the MEPN is a waste. Beware.

From what I've been reading and talking to lenders and financial aid officers when applying to any Entry Level MSN program (I've been researching California and Arizona), the big difference why schools are adding this entry level degree is that the federal government has been pouring money into a new area for financial aid.

This is great for students who already have a previous Bachelor degree in something other than nursing AND have tapped out on Federal Loans (Subsidized + Unsubsidized). If you were to pursue a second Bachelor's degree, the only loans available to you would be the Sub+Unsub Federal loans and Private Loans. After the credit crisis, you would be hard pressed to find a private loan that didn't require a co-signer. If you're fortunate enough to have someone who is willing to take on that massive responsibility (YOUR debt on THEIR credit record and the possibility of you not being able to pay it back and making them stuck to pay it back), then this might be the path for you. You most likely will not qualify for the Parent PLUS loans since you've already earned one bachelor degree.

For students who CAN'T get (or want to avoid getting) a co-signer to make up the difference of their tuition, this is where the Entry Level MSN programs come into play. This is the OTHER federal loan called the GradPLUS (Graduate PLUS) loan for students pursuing professional degrees (meaning Masters, Law degrees, and Doctorates).

This loan is guaranteed by the government (you can use it for tuition, books, room & board) and does NOT require a cosigner. They only do a "soft" credit check (meaning they check if you are on time with your bills and not delinquent on any debt which doesn't heavily affect your credit score) vs. Private Lenders doing a full credit score credit check (which will knock points off of your credit score by just running it for the loan approval process). GradPLUS loans also have a fixed interest rate versus the variable interest rate of Private Lender Loans.

It's true that entry level MSN-RN's will still start at the same place as ADN-RN's. The choice is if you have time to wait on waitlists to get into the ADN programs to save money, or just want/need to start right away and hopefully find a job before the waitlisted ADN's graduate and pass boards to start getting experience and whittling away at your debt.

Hope this was helpful!