Negotiating?

So I had a phone interview for a job that sounds pretty good.

Only thing is only 2 weeks vaca ( i currently get 3 weeks as a RN) He said increases with yrs. CME 1700 and 5days.

Job is M-F 8-5, he said there is flexibility in that you could come in at 8:30-5 and just take 30min lunch...

I would REALLY like to only work 4 days, whether 4 (8,9,10 hour days) I really don't care. I just feel like I have been going to school for so long (since HS, with not much relief) also working a lot of that time, I just don't want to work to death.

This clinic doesn't currently have extended hours and is only open 8-5 M-F.

I know many NP's work 4 days/week.

Now this job also has NO call and NO weekends.

Is this something I can even negotiate on? I would definitely take less pay to be able to work 4 days.

I am also getting to the point that I just really want a job, and don't want to lose the chance if they definitely only want to hire someone who will work that specific schedule.

It will just be VERY hard to go from 3 day/week (32hour) schedule to 5 day/week. Its okay that you get holidays off, but really makes no difference to me since, you can't even go to bank or post office, or your own appt. on holidays.

I recognize this is probably something to talk about AFTER a job offer has been made, but how would you go about negotiating something like this?

Go to your local bookstore and get "Negotiating Your Salary: How to Make $1000 a Minute" by Jack Chapman. Hands down the best book on Salary negotiation. I wish I had read this 8 years ago.

As far as the days, you have no seen the ugly side of salaried vs. hourly wage. Have they had an NPP in this slot before? Realistically you are talking a 50 hour work week (pretty standard). I also question the flexible schedule. Usually you have patient slots scheduled every so often (say 30 minutes) and they start at a certain time. So if you come in at 8:30 either they lose a slot (and payment) or there is a ****** off patient waiting for you in the room.

Everything is negotiable in a contract. It all depends on whether their structure can accommodate the negotiation. Take 4/10's for example. Scheduling patients from 8-5 with a one hour lunch is a good schedule with an hour on each end for administrative time. However, this means that the clinic either has to find someone to work the day that you aren't or they have to forgo that day (with the accompanied patient revenue and patient satisfaction). One way to do this might be to meet them half way and ask for a half day on Fridays. This gets you out early on Fridays while still getting days covered. Also who covers for you if you are out sick or on vacation? These are just as important.

Like I said start with "Negotiating Your Salary" - highly recommended.

David Carpenter, PA-C

david, what do you mean by this?

with the flexible schedule, my understanding how he explained is you would work 30min of your lunch and only take 30 for lunch.

they have 1 md and 1 pa at the clinic now and are trying to replace a np who is leaving for the mission field.

also do you mean i will really probably be working 7-6pm? :uhoh21:

he said the other providers cover for you on vaca, i'm not sure if pts have their own provider per se, it is a community health clinic.

yeah i have thought about the 1/2 day thing, would be better than nothing, and i don't plan on this being the end all be all, and i could live with that for at least 1-2 yrs.

clinic is usually run around your schedule. so you need to be there when you are scheduled to see patients. if you have a patient scheduled at 8am but don't show up until 830 then what happens. unless there is built in admin time, its pretty hard to have a flexible schedule when the schedule for patients isn't flexible. if you have a light schedule then maybe you can come in later if there is no one scheduled. generally flexible schedule and clinic are incompatible.

as far as 7-6pm this again is the reality of clinic. you are paid to do the work. its not a 9-5 job where you can drop what you are doing and go home regardless of whether you are done or not. every action that you take in clinic generates results that you have to deal with. there are tests to review, patients to talk with etc. i usually figure 1-2 hours per day. this assumes that you can keep up with your charting along with seeing patients. this is why i think that the 4/10 schedule is ideal for clinic. you have 2 hours per day to do your admin tasks and get your charting done. most 40 hour per week jobs are really more. i can't speak for nps, but on the average, full time pas work 44 hours per week.

i would ask the pa how many hours they work per week (work not scheduled). i would guess that its closer to 55+. most community clinics schedule patients every 15 minutes with a fairly high no show rates (based on my limited experience). it can be either really busy or not busy.

oh one more question, if you have time.

(i had another phone interview with another job in an internal medicine clinic. this one said they could work with 4 day week schedule, take mostly insurance (not underserved) they have had np's before but not in this position. would be working with a specific doc, wouldn't have own pt. base, just see his follow-up's, and acute cases.)

so anyways, my question is he said one doc is out on maternity leave and probably couldn't do an interview till week of april 21st.

so the hr from the community clinic called and i mentioned i would like to schedule a few interviews at the same time, (since i'm traveling from co to tx) anyways, she doesn't know but thinks that might be too far ahead.

i don't want to lose the opportunity at the community clinic because it sounds like a really great place to work, but the other job for sure i could do 4 days/week.

should i just say i can't come til 21st? oh the 21st week would be a lot better for me work wise, because i could go for a whole week and look for housing. versus only 2 days the week before. i'm just a little confused about what to do. i know they have great need in tx for np's but also chance they could find someone sooner.

neelia

hard to say what to do. i would treat each job as a seperate job search. they should be paying for your travel so it really doesn't matter. usually you have time after you accept to find a place to live etc. even if it means another trip out on your dime. it takes a while to get licensed in any case. not sure about the bon in tx but the bom is routinely taking 6 months from what i hear. overall if you have one job that sounds good there is the old saying about a bird in the hand.

good luck

david carpenter, pa-c

thanks david, i understand what you are saying. i kind of figured i would have to stay extra to complete paperwork, etc at least for 1st year til i get more efficient. i really don't want to work 55+ hours per week. i guess i will have to ask about administrative time.

its all negotiable. when we brought new pas on we would put empty slots in their schedules to catch up. for example if you are seeing a patient every 15 minutes have them leave one slot empty every hour so that you can do your charting. as you get more efficient start booking some of those slots. hopefully they understand how to construct a schedule. nothing is more aggravating than having to overbook 2-3 patients per day for "emergencies" when they could be booked into the schedule.

the only thing that gets me if that is considered just part of the job and you calculate it out to an hourly wage, that is not much more than what i make as a rn.

correct, and if you calculate in overtime it is probably less. when i was in denver, there were 2-3 rns in every icu that had their fnp. the one that did get a job as an fnp took a 10% pay cut. its difficult to tell if you will make more over time since its hard to predict what rn salaries are going to do. there are some markets that are now fairly saturated and the salaries will probably level off. others will keep going up. in texas from what i understand you will probably be making more than an rn with comparable experience.

its hard to make money in fp. even harder when most of your patients are medicaid/care. the private practice physicians (and npps) that make good money usually have a good payor mix and do a lot of procedures.

i guess i will just have to wait and discuss it if and when i get a job offer. i really would like to work less than 40 hours/week. seriously its not all about money to me. i haven't had a life for several past years and i would really like some time to do things i enjoy and not be working so much and so hard that i am just completely wiped out and need the weekend just to recover.

thats why i like 4/10s. you still do all the work but its in a more controlled fashion. realistically as a new grad they want you to work full time if you want full time pay. the only way that they make money is if patients come in the door. its a very different model than you are used to as a nurse.

the ceo who interviewed me did talk about creating an after hours clinic in the future, so maybe i can discuss that further and see if that is something "really" potentially happening or more speculation.

i will check into getting that book soon as well. taking my exam on monday so that's my focus til then!!

thanks again for all your comments, they are very helpful!

no problem. good luck.

david carpenter, pa-c