CNL

(full disclosure - CNS, Critical Care & MSN-Education here) I think CNL is bunkum. It was created to justify entry-level MSNs because they had to come up with some sort of "generalized specialization" because it's required for a graduate degree. I do know half a dozen staff nurses who earned their CNLs via online degree completion programs for licensed nurses. But - just like you suspect - they are all working as staff nurses.

If you want to be an educator, get an MSN in education. CNS roles are focused on nursing practice & are associated with very high levels of responsibility. Nurse administrators have grueling jobs with endless responsibilities. If you want an (non-academic) advanced job, an MSN is necessary, but not sufficient. You will also have to have progressive levels of career advancement, beginning at the entry-level.

Nurses with those advanced jobs generally put in long hours. The jobs are all exempt (non-hourly), and productivity is measured in output rather than in hours worked. The expectation is to just work as many hours as it takes to get the job done. Honestly, if working a couple days a week is your goal you'd be better off remaining in a staff position.

(full disclosure - CNS, Critical Care & MSN-Education here) I think CNL is bunkum. It was created to justify entry-level MSNs because they had to come up with some sort of "generalized specialization" because it's required for a graduate degree. I do know half a dozen staff nurses who earned their CNLs via online degree completion programs for licensed nurses. But - just like you suspect - they are all working as staff nurses.

If you want to be an educator, get an MSN in education. CNS roles are focused on nursing practice & are associated with very high levels of responsibility. Nurse administrators have grueling jobs with endless responsibilities. If you want an (non-academic) advanced job, an MSN is necessary, but not sufficient. You will also have to have progressive levels of career advancement, beginning at the entry-level.

Nurses with those advanced jobs generally put in long hours. The jobs are all exempt (non-hourly), and productivity is measured in output rather than in hours worked. The expectation is to just work as many hours as it takes to get the job done. Honestly, if working a couple days a week is your goal you'd be better off remaining in a staff position.

You're right.

I actually just completed the first semester of my MSN in education l, as I think I would like to teach in the future. Not sure if I'm ready to teach anyone yet, outside being a preceptor.

I really like my staff nursing schedule, which is part of why I've remained as such. In panning for the future, though, I because interested in my options, outside of management or administration. I wouldn't have the job of administrator or manager for the world. Although I applaud those who handle the difficulties of such a position.

Thanks for your Point of View! It seems to be a very..... For lack of a better word..... Awkward position to have been created.

A realistic and accurate assessment. Amen.

Elkpark, that is very interesting assessment you have. It actually makes a lot of sense. Guess time will tell huh? Thanks for your insight!

And my disclosure: CNS graduate here.

However CNS, at this time, do not have diagnostic prescriptive authority in my state (NC). Therefore the line between CNS and CNL is further blurred. I understand (in theory) the microsytem and macrosystem levels that each type of nurse works at.

There has never been prescriptive authority for the CNS role in any state, to my knowledge. The NP role does include prescriptive authority, depending on the state. The four Advanced Practice roles are NP, CRNA, CNM and CNS, each with its own specifics . The direct entry CNL is not an Advanced Practice role. I had an interesting discussion with the Dean of my undergraduate program a couple of years ago, and she was, understandably, defensive of their CNL program, which is at major academic institution. I have faith that their CNL graduates are well prepared as new entry grads, and, according to the Dean, have numerous job opportunities at their university hospital as new grads. HouTx's above comment got it right in a nutshell, IMHO.

And my disclosure: CNS graduate here.

However CNS, at this time, do not have diagnostic prescriptive authority in my state (NC). Therefore the line between CNS and CNL is further blurred. I understand (in theory) the microsytem and macrosystem levels that each type of nurse works at.

There has never been prescriptive authority for the CNS role in any state, to my knowledge. The NP role does include prescriptive authority, depending on the state. The four Advanced Practice roles are NP, CRNA, CNM and CNS, each with its own specifics . The direct entry CNL is not an Advanced Practice role. I had an interesting discussion with the Dean of my undergraduate program a couple of years ago, and she was, understandably, defensive of their CNL program, which is at major academic institution. I have faith that their CNL graduates are well prepared as new entry grads, and, according to the Dean, have numerous job opportunities at their university hospital as new grads. HouTx's above comment got it right in a nutshell, IMHO.

Actually, I found Out some states do offer prescriptive authority to CNS, one of the administrators here is a Peds and Adult CNS who works in Nephrology as a CNS. Username escapes me at this time. She always has sub informative posts. And I'm not sure, but I think there may be annex period to the diagnosis part in NC when it comes to the Psych CNS, as I know they can conduct Psychotherapy In NC.

As stated above, I'm well aware of the CNL not being an Advanced Practice Role. I think it is a new concept, like Elk said, and we'll have to see if it will catch on.

Actually, I found Out some states do offer prescriptive authority to CNS, one of the administrators here is a Peds and Adult CNS who works in Nephrology as a CNS. Username escapes me at this time. She always has sub informative posts. And I'm not sure, but I think there may be annex period to the diagnosis part in NC when it comes to the Psych CNS, as I know they can conduct Psychotherapy In NC.

As stated above, I'm well aware of the CNL not being an Advanced Practice Role. I think it is a new concept, like Elk said, and we'll have to see if it will catch on.

I stand corrected, as you have found some information that I am unaware of. Some of my colleagues in my CNS program (Critical Care /Trauma) later then went back for an additional year of education to become an Acute Care Nurse Practitioner as well and thus, with passing the NP certification exam, could prescribe. In this instance these colleagues are both a CNS and an NP. I don't doubt that you're saying at all. But this is how it works in CA. I am surprised if a CNS has prescriptive privileges, but we all know things do change! The CNL programs and role are not new, at least not in CA.

I stand corrected, as you have found some information that I am unaware of. Some of my colleagues in my CNS program (Critical Care /Trauma) later then went back for an additional year of education to become an Acute Care Nurse Practitioner as well and thus, with passing the NP certification exam, could prescribe. In this instance these colleagues are both a CNS and an NP. I don't doubt that you're saying at all. But this is how it works in CA. I am surprised if a CNS has prescriptive privileges, but we all know things do change! The CNL programs and role are not new, at least not in CA.

Yep. The National Association of Clinical Nurse Specialists maintains a list of states that allow for CNS to practice independently and/ or prescribe.

See the following:

http://www.nacns.org/docs/toolkit/5-AuthorityTable.pdf

I never knew CNS prescribed until reading posted from TrAumaRUS, who is the forum Admin on here who is a practicing CNS who prescribes. She is going back to school (may be finished now?) to be a FNP for multiple reasons.

Also, I think the title or designation of CNL has existed for a while, but the new graduate level ANCC certification is more new. Though I could be mistaken.

Yep. The National Association of Clinical Nurse Specialists maintains a list of states that allow for CNS to practice independently and/ or prescribe.

See the following:

http://www.nacns.org/docs/toolkit/5-AuthorityTable.pdf

I never knew CNS prescribed until reading posted from TrAumaRUS, who is the forum Admin on here who is a practicing CNS who prescribes. She is going back to school (may be finished now?) to be a FNP for multiple reasons.

Also, I think the title or designation of CNL has existed for a while, but the new graduate level ANCC certification is more new. Though I could be mistaken.

Good to know! Thank you. I've read posts from TrAumaRUS but never picked up that she prescribed.

To the OP, I think that HouTx made some very good points about the CNL role.

I am currently in an MSN in Nursing Education program that also offers a CNL track and although the Nursing Education and CNL students share quite a few classes there are some significant differences between the two roles. When reviewing my graduate program I knew from the beginning that the limited job prospects and confusion about the CNL role within the nursing community would make it a bad choice for me personally. With that being said, I know a few CNLs who work for the VA and seem to be very happy in their new positions.

I made a post discussing the differences between the clinical nurse leader (CNL) versus the clinical nurse specialist (CNS) in another thread, you might want to take a look. Here is the LINK

!Chris