SRNA Hazing

loveanesthesia · Jun 17, 2010

I guess it depends on your definition of hazing. I can't beleive that anything physical is tolerated, if that is true, I find that amazing. I know in the early 90's a CRNA that had gotten away with some pretty outrageous verbal assaults for years was terminated. It just wasn't tolerated anymore.

But a student may feel 'hazed' if they are put on the spot and made to feel uncomfortable. I don't think that is the best teaching method, but in a few cases, like once every year or two, a particular student needs to get a wakeup call that this is serious business and they need to step it up.

VAC · Jun 18, 2010

So, let me see if I understand you. CRNA schools do not have written procedures and processes in place to deal with underperforming students, and therefore intimidation is necessary? Are MDA's and CRNA's in teaching positions so lacking in communication and people skills, that they cannot get a point across otherwise?

I've read through a couple of the other threads on this forum, about students being criticized for ekg lead placement, taping eyelids shut vertically or horizontally, or IV taping methods. Are students corrected in the clinical over skills + rationale that are not taught, supported by research and are simply matters of personal preference? If my ekg leads are getting a good tracing and are not close to the incision, is this a patient saftey issue?

I know I sound like a question machine; these questions have been building up since I began researching this field. I hope you all can give me some direction.

Can one enter CRNA school and expect to be taught in a non hostile enviornment?

loveanesthesia · Jun 18, 2010

So, let me see if I understand you. CRNA schools do not have written procedures and processes in place to deal with underperforming students, and therefore intimidation is necessary? Are MDA's and CRNA's in teaching positions so lacking in communication and people skills, that they cannot get a point across otherwise?
I've read through a couple of the other threads on this forum, about students being criticized for ekg lead placement, taping eyelids shut vertically or horizontally, or IV taping methods. Are students corrected in the clinical over skills + rationale that are not taught, supported by research and are simply matters of personal preference? If my ekg leads are getting a good tracing and are not close to the incision, is this a patient saftey issue?
I know I sound like a question machine; these questions have been building up since I began researching this field. I hope you all can give me some direction.
Can one enter CRNA school and expect to be taught in a non hostile enviornment?

I think it's your definition of intimidation. Making you feel uncomfortable because you ordered morphine for the PACU when the patient has an allergy to morphine might be necessary to make you understand that you need to be more diligent. The student who will struggle is the student who focuses on why the intructor 'hazed' them, rather than their own lack diligence. If you go to nurse anesthesia school, you will be corrected (taught), on a daily basis. (EKG lead placement does matter if you are monitoring ST changes, taping the eyes does matter if the patient has fragile skin, etc, etc) Yes, some things are a matter of my personal preference, and I will ask you nicely to do them, and you will do them because you don't have a license to give anesthesia, I do, and I'm letting you borrow it.

I don't know if you can be taught in a non hostile environment, depends on how you define that.

CRNA, DNSc · Jun 18, 2010

Yes, schools have policies and procedures for dealing with underperforming students- the major difficulty is that clinical performance can not be measured with quite the same degree of clarity and objectivity as academic performance in the didatic arena. The other problem is that students who are struggling are frequently unable to accept that the lack in their performance is in themselves- in order to preserve one's self image they will blame it on everyone else but themselves. That is why is most cases clinical dismissals are often long procedures with the compiling of many evaluations as the due process appeal is a long and difficult process for both the student and the program faculty. It is very difficult to accept but some people who perform well in class and did well in the ICU ( in the frequently tightly structured and directed evironment) do not have or can not apply high level critical thinking and communication skills in the operating room arena.

Class2011 · Jun 19, 2010

As a nurse and student, I find this tone unnecessary and inaccurate. I am working on my own RN license not yours.

you will do them because you don't have a license to give anesthesia, I do, and I'm letting you borrow it

The my way or highway attitude especially when the issue is just a matter of personal preference without rational is the mark of poor teaching skills. A good instructor will be aware of the many ways to safely give anesthesia and encourage the student to develop their own safe practice.

VAC · Jun 20, 2010

I'm curious; is precepting voluntary for CRNA's, or is it required of all of them regardless of whether they want to teach?

loveanesthesia · Jun 20, 2010

As a nurse and student, I find this tone unnecessary and inaccurate. I am working on my own RN license not yours. The my way or highway attitude especially when the issue is just a matter of personal preference without rational is the mark of poor teaching skills. A good instructor will be aware of the many ways to safely give anesthesia and encourage the student to develop their own safe practice.

You might find my tone unnecessary, but it is not inaccurate. RNs don't have the authority to administer anesthesia. The CRNA is the one who has to answer for what happens in the OR, not the student, and my first responsibility is to the patient, second to assisting the surgeon to complete the procedure, and third to teaching the student. Sometimes things need to be done quickly and there is not enough time to explain to the student why they need to be done. So if I have a student who is unable to follow my direction unless I've explained it to their satisfaction, it can affect safe patient care. We can then talk about it later. I enjoy teaching, especially brand new students. I only have a few ground rules and have been lucky I guess to have students who are receptive. I am appreciating them more all the time.

Trauma Columnist · Jun 20, 2010

When you are working in a high-responsibility position such as CRNA, you must be cognizant of the magnitude of the importance of everything you do.

Its not hazing, its being responsible.

putmetosleep · Jun 29, 2010

As a nurse and student, I find this tone unnecessary and inaccurate. I am working on my own RN license not yours. The my way or highway attitude especially when the issue is just a matter of personal preference without rational is the mark of poor teaching skills. A good instructor will be aware of the many ways to safely give anesthesia and encourage the student to develop their own safe practice.

As a current SRNA, I can personally tell you that while it can be frustrating sometimes to be corrected on things that seem miniscule (i.e. EKG lead placement, IV taping, etc), it's important to take a step back and realize that your grad is not doing it to belittle you (I've never met one who was hostile or did things just to make it difficult for me). They are doing it because they want you to know how they do things and why. And it is impossible to develop your own practice without having the advantage of seeing mutliple ways of administering anesthesia. So try not to be offended when you're corrected, instead look at is as a learning opportunity (no matter how small the detail is). When you're on your own you can pick and choose from all that advice and create the perfect practice for you. Most CRNAs are at least a little bit Type A...but this is what makes them so diligent. Until then, try to keep the attitude that you are a guest in the OR, and be thankful there are people willling to teach you. Be open to suggestions..this is key to being a good student. Take it all in. When you're on your own you won't have the opportunity to see how other CRNAs practice...now is the time to find out all the different approaches to anesthesia and then decide what works for you (when the time is right!).

Of course I am counting the months until I graduate, but I feel lucky to be where I'm at and can't believe how MUCH I've learned in such a short time. It's amazing. Anesthesia school has been one of the best decisions of my life.

enelson610 · Jun 25, 2013

Hey

I saw your other posts and you took the une general chemistry II course. Can I ask how was the final? Were the questions formatted the same as the quizzes. any info would be helpful.

thanks

eric you can reach me at enelson610 at yahoo.com