1hopefulChik

It's good you had a positive experience. It doesn't mean there isn't a need for some schools to improve. Reasonable, mindful evaluation of nursing education in general requires objectivism, not optimism or pessimism. Nursing education should be subject to evidence-based evaluation just like nursing practice.

Excellent, excellent observations! For a few years, I've asked similar questions. Perhaps registered nursing education needs to be expanded. Patient care is the goal of nursing. Nursing education should reflect that proportionately. I advocate for basic registered nursing education to have way more clinical education than theory and other intellectual pursuits. New grads usually require considerable oversight to complete many duties of their new position. Clinical and patient care should be the bulk of our training so new grads are ready sooner rather than later. Residencies can help but reforming nursing education to focus on DELIVERING evidence-based care is the real solution.

Hey folks! Admitted spring 2014. Just wanted to wish everyone who applied and hung there congratulations for your hard work and for the way you guys encourage each other on! Quesersera: Bummer! You've been hanging in there so long! Hope you get ADMITTED very soon. My heart goes out to you!!! For those admitted I hope this helps: FEES: Really high- $1700 last semester. That does not include $1800 to get their insurance. Barring that, it's about $5700 per semester. CLASSES: (at Balto) You'll take most of your classes together in a large auditorium that seats about 300-400 (usu Fundies, Pharm, Health Assmt). The Research course will be taken in a smaller classroom with about 20ish others. There are assignments and a major project that has been done by the group to which you are assigned. Don't know if that's still true since the class was changed. Health Assessment does not seem to have its own lab anymore. (previously, Fundies and Health Assmt each had its own lab.) BOOKS: The University store is run by Barnes and Noble. It'll probably be cheaper to rent them online. Figure out for yourself if you'll need to keep the pharmacology or nursing books. LABS: Hard to say much since the curriculum is changing. The BEST advice is get as much practice as you can when you're there!!!! Otherwise, you'll have to spend lots of time outside of class/lab to take advantage of Open Lab times, which may or may not fit your schedule. Don't wait until 2 weeks before skills evaluations to get Open Lab time in. The lab will be full and you won't be able to get the individualized attention you like or need. STUDENT SUCCESS CENTER/GSS: The school provides considerable resources for students to succeed! Most instructors will really work with you if you are responsible and put forth effort. The SCC provides group and private peer tutoring. I prefer the private tutoring. The one time I did group tutoring it seemed more geared toward students who already knew the material. It was somewhat intimidating to me because some folks got huffy that I was having trouble 'keeping up' with the group. I'm sure not all groups are like that, but be aware that there may be those who 'show-off' rather than help. Also, be aware that some tutors are great students of a subject but not the best instructors. Find one that fits your learning style. STUDYING: My assessments is that some UMSON professors/instructors focus on details, while others are more straightforward. For me, Health Assmt was well-taught because it was mostly straightforward- you know it or you don't. Other courses' exams are 'critical thinking style' exams. It's best to LEARN the material first. It's easier to critically think about something when you have a thorough understanding of the information. So learn it first, then try and understand it. Study, study, study!!! RAPPORT: Every class is different, but most students and instructors are really, really supportive. Even someone you think is a hard-*** will likely be flexible and understanding if you are doing right and you let them know right away when you need help or flexibility. But don't mistake kindness for being a fool! With very few exceptions most fellow students are very, very friendly. Not a whole lot of back-biting. There will be a handful of competitive types but most folks are happy to help!!! Be ready to hit the ground RUNNING, including having your uniform ready!!! Once you're there, expect to work and work hard. I'm sure you'll do fine!

Way cool!!! I was supposed to take one in December but it was cancelled and rescheduled for January. I thought it was going to be a fairly quiet winter but the list just grows longer. Two orientations, CPR, getting parking passes, picking up IDs, buying books and pcs.... whew!

Really?!?!?!?!?

I too was taken aback at how some seemed to be bragging or blase about being pulled over for excessive speeding! It might be courtesy if you get off the hook because you're rushing in for an urgent medical call/situation. Otherwise, if a cop decides not to give a ticket, that's not courtesy. That's mercy. Nurses have treated enough 'traffic pizzas' to know the importance of traffic safety. All these statements leave the impression (true or untrue) that nurses are habitual speeders who expect special treatment because of their status. It may not be true, but that's how it comes off.

Wow- the waiting ended for most and it seems like the party is over. Any more word on folks that are wait-listed?

Does this mean that ONLY people with a masters as an APN are intelligent and aware enough to understand that this is a controversial topic, even among the intelligentsia in nursing? All you learned people crack me up!

Once again, my concern with the type of education gets ignored. Just because you learn something doesn't mean that something offers you greater expertise, or makes you a better clinician or a worse one. Rather than attacking me, perhaps you should illustrate exactly what you learned that improved the quality of your care with specific examples. Also, explain how material covered in DNP studies gave you expertise as a clinician that you didn't gain at the master's level. Ad hominem attack is easy. Illustrating your point is where the real work starts. Quantify your position please.

It is you who likes to play UP your advanced degree. I don't begrudge education and I made that crystal clear in previous postings. I think your defensiveness has obscured that fact from your view. As I stated before, the issue with advanced education -of ANY kind- is the type of advanced education being offered. As long as students get information that has practical application to the workplace, I'm all for it. Head knowledge is fine. Head knowledge that interprets to reality and that has a useful practical application is ideal. I'm all about advanced degrees that truly improve the quality of service a student can provide. P.S. - My educational level has absolutely no bearing on the whether or not degrees for APNs provide enough clinical expertise (not experience). That matter is settled by analyzing how effective APNs are with an advanced degree versus those without one. Focusing on my education level - or even yours- is a distraction. The real issue has absolutely nothing about the sheepskins hanging on our walls.

You obviously WISH I didn't know what I was talking about. I may not have the exact same training as you but I am intelligent enough to discern issues for myself. It is attitudes like those you display in this discussion that makes advanced education appear to be about getting more prestige than being more productive. Perhaps you mean well, but the apparent arrogance is off-putting. Nursing did not invent the concepts of competency or proficiency. The dictionary is the authority on what they are or are not: proficient: well advanced in an art, occupation, or branch of knowledge competent: having requisite or adequate ability or qualities "High skill level is not the same as competency."According to Merriam Webster, my statement is correct. If you paid attention in undergrad statistics and paid attention during clinicals and pathopharm, you would probably have a decent idea how to interpret. Again, no grad degree necessary! The important thing is that you obtained the education you needed to attain the skill level for the work you wanted to do. You put in the hard work and effort, and for that I congratulate you.

EASY- it's called reading comprehension. That's a skill you have BEFORE you get to nursing school. A master's degree is not required to pick up nursing research, read it and assimilate it. That's basic high school stuff! A reasonably intelligent person has the ability and skill to read, test what they read for accuracy and then figure out how to incorporate ideas into practice. That is not master's level functioning. Nurse managers and workplace leaders are the ones who institute change. Staff nurses can introduce innovations and ideas to leaders, who then incorporate it into practice. "By the way nursing and NP school is designed to make you competent not proficient upon graduation. You are expected to go through a mentorship period for at least a few months after graduation. " That made no sense. If you are competent you are also proficient. If you are not competent, you are not proficient. If you are not proficient, you definitely won't be competent. If you are proficient, you are competent though you may not have super-high levels of skill. High skill level is not the same as competency. One does not need an advanced degree to "keep proficient." Many employers and organizations offer CEUs just for that reason. I get the impression that you equate an advanced degree with advanced knowledge. Whether that's true or not, my issue relates to the type of advanced knowledge obtained at the master's level. A low-level community college course on technical writing and a higher level undergraduate writing course provides all the skills one needs to learn how to read research, write research papers and extrapolate information for use in practice of any kind. Performing and using research is usually a competency gained from general undergraduate education- and often part of the prerequisite course work for ADN/BSN nursing programs.

If that's the premise of the argument, then nurses would just be playing copycat and trying to keep up with the Joneses. Perhaps a good reply is that many nurses demonstrate a level of competency and knowledge equal to their peers without a bunch of letters. That says a lot! I'm not against pieces of paper. I just think it's sad to chase paper to prove things to other people rather than actually gaining practical knowledge needed for the very practical profession that nursing is.

The challenge is that much of the master's and doctorate level education doesn't increase clinical competency in proportion to the time and effort required for completion. Head knowledge is useful, no doubt. But at least let it be knowledge that makes nurses more valuable to the patients we serve and the health teams on which we participate. In my mind the crux of the issue isn't whether nurses need more education but rather more of what kind of education. Nurses are expected to gain proficiency and knowledge to work in acute care settings when we should emerge from ADN/BSN with a basic skill set that any graduate should be at least prepared to step into those areas. I think advanced nursing education is most effective when it makes us better clinicians FIRST. PA, MDs, PTs, PHarmDs need to keep up with changes in medical therapies and technology. Those changes won't suddenly cease when you get a terminal degree. So, getting another degree is no guarantee you'll be up with the times or ahead of the curve.

Many CRNA programs make it very clear that ED experience is not acceptable for critical care experience. Most of those I've researched state that in their FAQs sections. If you are compelled to do ED, make sure the CRNA program of your choice finds it acceptable. Unfortunately, many do not. Best of luck to you!!

Hey, photog- I'm a newbie starting UMSON this spring. Maybe we'll get a chance to meet. I happen to share your skepticism. Most of the curricula I've seen focus on leadership and research- 2 things that do not appear on the surface to do much to make healthcare more affordable nor does it offer APNs more advanced clinical knowledge. Patients are the reasons nurses exist. Patients need us to be clinically strong. Having a really strong clinical skills set offers the greatest benefit to patient, nurse, nursing and the healthcare team alike. I dare to submit that nursing education has an education gap that needs to be fixed before additional education is proposed. Nurses are mandated to stop in the middle of their education to get clinical experience before going on to the next level, except for nursing informatics. I think graduate nurses should be trained enough to be able to do acute care, emergency, pediatrics, etc. upon graduation. If nurses cannot graduate with enough clinical knowledge to perform in all non-APN areas, then nursing education is lacking. Other health professions don't require students to stop cold in the middle of the education to get work experience before developing the proficiency to proceed to the next level. As an older 2nd-career nursing student, the need to interrupt education to go to work is a major barrier to continuing my education. Once you start working, it's hard to go back to school. Plus, how inconvenient to change careers only to have to stop and start in the middle!

If it helps, I think the letters for accepted students only went out Nov 14th (got it Saturday). I'm guessing other letters are being received right about now or will go out this week. Just my guess.. Maybe Grey Lady has an answer.

Two weeks ago I got that answer. I was told the acceptance letter discusss that option. I was told that you can petition the Admissions Committee in writing for a deferment- and it's up to them. I was told that they don't offer deferments liberally and that you must have a really, really good reason for them to offer it. Good luck!

Wooooo-hooo! When I read you got it in, I jumped UP and did a happy dance for you! YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE-HAW!

A little late to the party, but congrats on all the new 'positive' admission statuses out there! I've been watching posts but hadn't logged in. The one day I don't and all the juicy news bits come out- lol. Poor Nsmu! I hope you get admitted big-time! You've been waiting so long!

After reading several posts, I tend to think about your situation differently- but I could be wrong. I think a more important issue is that you seem to embrace being a pushover as positive. You do not need to be a leader-type to stand up for yourself. That's assertiveness, not aggression nor competitiveness. No- everyone can't be a leader. But not being a leader does not mean a lack of assertiveness. Unlike some, I am an assertive person when necessary but I am by no means competitive. I don't have to do better than others. I only need to do my best. If it helps, nursing diagnosis and medical diagnosis share the common thread. Both require a practitioner to look and analyze what they observe and come to some type of conclusion. Most of nursing is about decision-making. Based on your deep analysis of yourself, you obviously have tremendous analytical ability. That would be a great asset if you were to be a nurse. I think the 1st semester of nursing school may require some memorization but probably not as much as you think. I'm of the opinion that it's more about analyzing the scenario presented against what you've studied. It's not about rote or regurgitation. Your posts leave me with the impression that you are struggling with the art and practice of thinking for yourself, rather than taking cues from others. That's an important trait for any adult in any career. No matter what career you choose, you will be frustrated unless you learn to think on your feet and for yourself. Besides, the very essence of true leadership is to be a servant of those you lead. Leaders make decisions so their subordinates have the direction, leverage and tools they need to do their job. I believe you don't necessarily need to change careers as much maybe renewing your thoughts on servitude versus slavery. You can gain more confidence in your ability to think for yourself without needing to be a leader.

Chelsea, I'm glad you finally heard something! You've been cheering others. I hoped the news would be better- but it could be worse. Congrats to you and Sarah922! Nsmu, schang03 and aepomerantz- hang in there!

Amen to that! Welcome to the club! I ended up applying to UMSON because of a previous setback. I'm sooo glad I did because UMSON offers the quality of education I was hoping for and didn't experience before. One door may close and another may open. Sometimes it's just closed because it's taking that big fat blessing a few minutes to get to the door!

I think he spoke at the open house I went to one Saturday morning too. Rather inspiring fella!

Oh, no,no,no,no! Aw- my heart breaks so much for you- REALLY! I'm so, so, sorry!!! I'm still holding out for you, Chelsea13! That goes for you too, schang03, Nsmu and jackie2575. Fingers and toes are crossed! Hope you hear good news soon!