BS, NP

I mean, don't get me wrong, I think that they're practicing medicine too. If walks like a duck, looks like a duck, and quacks, it's a duck. ok....? so, you agree that I'm practicing medicine, TOO....and since I walk like a duck....I must be a duck ( or at least one functioning in a similar role as said duck) ---this is per you...... so, I'm practicing medicine too.....but at the same time I'm not....... ok....if it makes YOU feel better.....I don't provide medical care.....I provide advanced nursing care....

so, umm.....really curious here........why are you and any of your other anti-NP cohorts on this board again....???? this is a nurse forum and an NP link within the forum........???? I don't think I've ever truly heard the handful of you who think NPs are poorly trained clinicians EVER say anything good about them.....understandably, this is a forum for freedom of thought and opinion....but why don't you go to a medical forum with your perceptions and opinions......anyhow, I'm done responding to u and your buddy 'wowza'..... NPs will continue to thrive and fluorish and be utilized for what they are capable of doing despite your take on it.......

sure....I agree...of course they should.....and I'm sure there are limitations.....once again.....I'm not saying either way.....they SHOULD or SHOULD NOT be independent with primary care.....just get a bit irritated with the one sided folks on here who go on about NPs having 1/10th the training of physicians and NPs not providing safe care......NPs not practicing medicine....wake up to reality here.....if we're not providing medical care then what do you call this....???? no, I'm not a physician, but I borrow the same functional processes in my practice and use the knowledge I've accumulated as a previous nurse and a nurse practitioner.......if a patient comes in and I gather a history, review of systems, perform a physical, formulate differential diagnoses, perform a diagnostic workup, conclude on a diagnosis, prescribe a pharmacologic or nonpharmacologic treatment for the patient.....what kind of care am I providing then....??? someone please tell me....

so, if a PhD history professor or researching scientist is in a clinical setting.....you refer to them by their first name since they are not a PHYSICIAN...?? sounds pretty disrespectful to me, Wowza.....

no, I believe you are correct....not many practicing independently........but, why do you have such a problem with this when those who have been practicing independently have shown no decline in safety and no increases in malpractice premiums....is this not evidence of good practice...?

do me a favor and don't take my quotes out of context......I was trying to have an honest and thoughtful post here......and clearly outlined some differences between NPs and physicians.......I don't appreciate your condescending remarks.....you dgenthusiast, among others never have anything positive to say about NPs.....I'm not vouching for independence.......but, clearly you don't know anything about the multitude of studies that HAVE in fact ranked NP care right up there with physicians in quality, safety and efficiency......(in PRIMARY CARE)......not sure what journals you're reading.....aside from studies.....do you work with any NPs or PAs.....what is your experience with their care?

no...it doesn't sound petty....I agree with you totally and hope I made that point.....anyone who achieves doctoral education deserves that title......just as any physician (only) who works that hard to complete medical school should be the sole carrier of the title physician.......you're right.....the only way to be a physician is to go to med school.....

I have to also throw my hand in on this one.....yes.....there are alot of students who seem to have lived the experience of medicine and nursing and are a bit too overzealous with their take on reality here.......I have been an NP fora bout 7 years ....a nurse for about 10.....I personally am on the fence about what should and shouldn't be in health care for NPs at the moment....however, I will make it clear....while I feel capable and good at handling most common acute and chronic medical problems.......allopathic and osteopathic physicians sure put a hell of alot more time into the books and with patients.....bottom line......I'm fine with the nearly independent practice I am doing now with a nice experienced physician to collaborate with if need be.......

wow....there are some well-informed folks on here.....yeah...no one should be downplaying another profession......that doesn't help.....I think it is truly a semantic debate here....be it DOCTOR is a professional title but we all know a euphymysm for a medical caregiver.......who here has not been called 'doc' by your patients???...but....who should be called physicians?? some seem to think we should.....well, if we're arguing for rights as advanced practice nurses why would we WANT to be called a physician....we have to be careful what we are asking for here....it is becoming a slippery slope.....we may lose the support of those who are well established and on our sides....we are NOT physicians....some NPs argue that doctors of chiropractic and optometry carry the title physician while they don't fully care for the entire patient in the same medical manner.........let the non allopathic and osteopathic practitioners of optometry and chiropractic have the title I suppose....traditionally they always have.....fighting for the same or similar RIGHTS is a different story.... I've been giving it alot of thought and really trying to see the big picture......people are getting so hung up on titles and credentials and wording and program curricula......arguing who's better a PA...an NP.....a physician...??? I used to have the theory that if you took an NP, a PA and a physician right out of school.....I think the physician is hands down more prepared, more skilled, more educated.......but, 10 years 15 years down the road....how much does experience and insight and continued learning and study develop each practitioner? could the PA end up being the brightest and most informed and best medical decision maker...?? yes, I think so....could it be the physician, the NP? sure.....doesn't it depend on all kinds of factors that take priority after education? drive? ability to integrate knowledge and medical literature? experiential and acuity exposure in practice? etc...etc..... I think the definition on this site sums it up well........ A Nurse Practitioner (NP) is a registered nurse with advanced academic and clinical experience in diagnosing and managing most common acute and chronic illnesses either independently or in collaboration with a physician. we just want to do what we are doing and be who we are and be rightfully recognized and legitimized for it, no??? no we don't have the same training as physicians.....could we safely take on the primary care needs of the population.......sure.....I think we could..........aren't we pretty much doing that now.....as it is....???? won't we still call on our physician and NP and PA colleagues for insight and expertise and experience when ours falls short.....???? yes...I think we will....... I guess I kind of enjoy basically being independent and still legal having an attachment to a physician who in many cases knows more than I do...... I guess I don't need to be able to say I'M INDEPENDENT to boost my ego.......while some seem to have that need..... I've heard some folks make a few decent arguments as to why dissolve of collaborative practice agreements is a good and/or founded thing......such as: a rightful move based on our experience and quality and scope of practice; would free up care for those who have independent clinics should something happen to their physician supervisor (death or move or stop practicing) I guess the facts are coming in and I'm still on the fence...... can anyone else offer other reasons for why this move is so necessary or deserved....???? thanks........

I believe I am pretty much in agreement with you....wow....there are some well-informed folks on here.....yeah...no one should be downplaying another profession......that doesn't help.....I think it is truly a semantic debate here.......who should be called physicians?? well, if we're arguing for rights as advanced practice nurses why would we WANT to be called a physician....we have to be careful what we are asking for here....it is becoming a slippery slope.....we may lose the support of those who are well established and on our sides....we are NOT physicians......let the non allopathic and osteopathic practitioners of optometry and chiropractic have the title I suppose....traditionally they always have.....fighting for the same or similar RIGHTS is a different story.... I've been giving it alot of thought and really trying to see the big picture......people are getting so hung up on titles and credentials and wording and program curricula...... I think the definition on this site sums it up well........ A Nurse Practitioner (NP) is a registered nurse with advanced academic and clinical experience in diagnosing and managing most common acute and chronic illnesses either independently or in collaboration with a physician. we just want to do what we are doing and be who we are and be rightfully recognized and legitimized for it, no??? no we don't have the same training as physicians.....could we safely take on the primary care needs of the population.......sure.....I think we could.....but.....aren't we pretty much doing that now.....as it is....???? won't we still call on our physician and NP and PA colleagues for insight and expertise and experience when ours falls short.....???? yes...I think we will....... I guess I kind of enjoy basically being independent and still legal having an attachment to a physician who in many cases knows more than I do...... I've heard some folks make a few decent arguments as to why dissolve collaborative practice agreements is a good and/or founded thing......such as: a rightful move based on our experience and quality and scope of practice; would free up care for those who have independent clinics should something happen to their physician supervisor (death or move or stop practicing) can anyone else offer other reasons for why this move is so necessary or deserved....???? thanks........

when I went to school back in the 90s I remember thinking it seemed like a neat gimmick at first...oh...nurses have their own diagnoses...???? until I spent any number of potentially productive minutes wasted on constructing a semi-worthless care plan that ever abundantly stated the obvious and distracted from the priority event----caring for the patient...!!!! man....if we could have spent the time we did working on care plans actually carrying out orders and caring for the patient meanwhile learning how to think proactively for the patient rather than learn about an entity that existed merely to fill up space in a fluff nursing course and sadly ---poorly attempt to legitimize nurses as autonomous...........in my experience, life proves that in order for something to prove itself.....overattempts to do so negate that outcome......if something has what it takes it needn't try THAT hard......it just does.......

where are you? I worked for an emergency medicine group and had privileges in an ER [hospital] for 3 years....they hire physicians, PAs, NPs.....in this state....NPs can pretty much work in any area a physician does except anesthesia of course......I'm an FNP by certification......so????

hmmmm....I took it in 2003......I thought the NCLEX was difficult and Board cert. was easy myself.....thought I failed the NCLEX....anyhow.....I would seriously do some intense systems review....as in go through your ENT, cardiopulmonary, gi, uro, derm, etc......patho most common illnesses, diagnostics and treatments........do alot of differential workup practice on ruling out those red flag differentials....truly the uphold and graham clinical guideline book would be a good review of common diseases and injuries.......it's so impossible to really STUDY for such a thing....you know..... hope that helps....

FNP is your best bet if you want to change around.....there is no need for example to switch from say family to cardiology to orthopedics...nor is there a requirement to recertify......it is the most versatile and a switch simply requires a group of providers willing to train you on the job so to speak in that area......I went from a couple years in family to emergency medicine for 3 and now in urgent care..... ACNP will prepare you better for more acute (obviously) inpatient problems working in the ICU/ED ...... you could go the extra mile and take the additional courses needed to certify in both....but in most programs each specialty has the same core coursework (patho/pharm/physical diagnosis) it's the clinical lectures and rotations that differ......

It's cool....sorry if I sounded like a jerk myself...

hey...thanks...UNC guy...!! just curious.... you gotten into the BSN program yet....????

interesting....where is this program....?

thanks for taking the time to delineate the differences and share your insight..... to clarify....I'm not trying to imply my coursework was the same as a physicians....I'm saying the content was based on treating a patient from a medical perspective rather than from nursing....as I said the program was DIRECTED from the medical model (we are obviously treating patients medically)...of course there was plenty of nursing integrated into it.....I do not have a DNP.....nor am I advocating the DNP be considered equal to that of medical school...(so, I don't know where that response came from)....I still can't understand how it would clinically benefit me to do it in the first place......in general I see it as a means of applying doctorate credentials behind one's name with the content in place......and I agree there isn't a way to bridge current programs to a medical school follow through.....I was responding to others claims about NPs and PAs that weren't all accurate......there's no need for you to condescend or discredit MY educational experience here......by towering over it with yours......

are you an NP, dgenthusiast? either way, what you are saying is completely untrue about NP curricula; the program I attended was directed ENTIRELY from the medical model.....you can argue some semantics based on course titles...sure there is some required nursing fluff in there......but, our core work consisted of intense pathophysiology, pharmacology, a physical diagnosis course and lab......lecture and clinical in pediatrics, adult, geriatrics, psych each respectively (FNP)......already being RNs we had previously completed anatomy, physiology, microbiology and undergraduate bio and chems.......we were taught to formulate differential diagnoses based on a complaint or problem.......and treat appropriately...(MEDICALLY).....so, I don't know what program model you are speaking from....but you can't practice medicine as any kind of provider unless you work 'from a medical model'..........I personally don't care if there is or isn't going to be a bridge program in the future.......I don't need to be considered equal to a physician.....and don't claim to be and am NOT....! I'm just tired of people who don't even practice as an NP or PA or PHYSICIAN.....making claims on what one is or isn't.......NPs and PAs are not physicians.....but......NPs and PAs ARE [trained to provide MEDICAL care for acute and chronic health problems utilizing a variety of therapeutic treatment options......and I'm pretty sure you could say 3 professions that share the same function generally speaking are kinda similar???!!! bottom line is we mid-level providers are out here autonomously and safely and effectively providing primary care to our patients and are pretty darn good at it.......

I am in the process of deciding where to apply....(have been an NP for about 7 years)....one thing I don't get as far as criticism goes...is the accusation that we want to be doctors (physicians)....can people just understand that a doctorate is an EDUCATIONAL title...not profession specific....while I understand it's a euphemysm for physicians.....psychologists, podiatrists, optometrists, pharmacists, educators, researchers....the list goes on.....to me, a doctorate is a terminal educational endpoint to a body of knowledge/or profession..........

I believe there MAY be an Emergency NP certification/program curricula somewhere.......no surgical NP programs out there.......as of yet....the best thing to do for surgery would be get your FNP training, and find a surgical group interested in hiring an NP....I've seen NPs do everything from round on pts, assist in surgery and harvest the vein grafts for a cabg......they will cross train you....... as for ER......I recently spent about 3 years practicing in the ED.....likewise, I was really just cross-trained there and learned as I went.....but, that was after my initial couple years in practice in a family practice/urgent care setting..... ACNP----acute care nurse practitioner may be the way to go and make you more marketable for the ED....

Yeah.....alot of you people have apparently never made a mistake or needed any help in life.....maybe one day we can hope do live by your rigid standards....... about your friend who made the mistake, guess what we all do....that doesn't excuse it.......but, hopefully she has learned and is turning the other way........she will have to suffer the consequences either way.....but in my experience, as someone else above mentioned....a pattern of these things is gonna look bad to a school or the board......if she is honest up front and shows evidence of wanting to change or put something in place to prevent this from happening again or affecting patient care in the future (AA meetings, counseling, meeting the requirements of DUI) I think she has a fine shot at getting in and being as successful as the rest of us..... btw, has she actually been convicted in court, or just charged with it......???