hello123

Hello jasn, I think you need to understand what dumping the Employed Student Nurse program means - the reasons I give above are extremely valid - they have nothing to do with the educational quality of the programs of BCIT or UBC, but have to do with your marketability as a new grad after you've graduated from BCIT. If you can't ESN, you're going to be behind ALL the other nursing schools in the lower mainland who still can ESN, because they get first dib on the jobs, since they ESN'ed at the hospitals. That includes Douglas College, UBC, Langara College, even Kwantlen College. BCIT is now BEHIND them because their students can't ESN, and employers tend to hire ESN's first, especially in a limited nursing job market like today. Now, if you're a BCIT student and you're NOT allowed to ESN, doesn't matter how stellar you are as a student - you're going to be less favoured than ESNs by potential employers out there - because of the fact that ESNs get to apply to INTERNAL JOB POSTINGS (i.e. job postings that only existing staff can apply to, and not people who don't work for the health authority such as new grads who have not ESN'ed). Do you understand what I'm saying? It's definitely not a BCIT vs. UBC thing, it's just a "BCIT made a less-than-favourable move by dropping the ESN program" thing.

I would have to respectfully disagree with the above poster's comments. Langara and UBC have the most placements at Children's Hospital, and also they have kept their ESN (Employed Student Nurse) programs. Especially in today's job market, ESN-ing makes a big difference because you can accrue seniority. You can then apply to jobs that are considered internal staff postings just before graduation. BCIT has dumped the ESN program and has gone now with a co-op paid preceptorship format. On one hand, this is great because everyone in the class gets paid (via bursary). Unfortunately no seniority is accrued in preceptorship, and none of the students are allowed to participate in being an ESN if they go to BCIT. That means when you graduate, you cannot apply to "internal" job postings - only external. That can be a hard blow in a job market like today. BCIT also does not have many placements at Children's. Their initial pediatrics component in the program is only 4 weeks long. Even if you request a final placement at Children's, it is REALLY HARD to get placed there from BCIT. Literally, like maybe 2 people in the entire class. The competition is insane. This quarter, Children's Hospital is only taking in 12 new graduate hires. If you can get into UBC and Langara and become an ESN at Children's Hospital, that is your best bet. Otherwise, in my opinion, the rest doesn't matter. It is the access to the good placements, the learning on the job, team-oriented attitude (get along well with coworkers), and the proving that you can take on a full patient load on your own, that's what gets you hired in the end. Of course, I am only talking about being hired directly out of school into Children's. I'm sure someone who does some other kind of nursing and gets experience, might be able to network their way into Children's if they know someone who works there. Good luck!

Hello! I am in my 30's and studied my first degree in systems engineering (computer/electrical). I absolutely hated engineering school but didn't know what else to do at the time, and since I was on full scholarship, I thought it was the safest to just finish my degree. Local companies were offering new grads as much as $57,000 to start plus bonuses, and if one went to Silicon Valley, it was even more lucrative. However, I didn't do that - I ventured into the financial services industry instead and after I saved up enough money I went back to school for nursing. I absolutely love it and am graduating very soon (RN). As much as the job market is bleak right now, I believe that with enough perseverance and good self-marketing and networking skills, I can land my first job within one year (and, also hopefully, no more market crashes!). There are some very amazing people and patients in health care - that is what keeps me interested, and keeps the spark in my eyes! Best of luck to all the career-changers.

BCIT is indeed competitive to get in, but take note that they have shrunken their degree to a 3-year format and have disallowed students to become ESN's during the program. Instead they have replaced it with co-op preceptorships (paid via a bursary format) in the last semester. That means a few things: 1. ESNs can get seniority while they work for a health authority as they are seen as casual employees. Hospitals who use ESNs tend to favour them over other types of new grads, because they have already proven they can taken on their own patient load (without a preceptor). ESNs have access to internal job postings upon graduation, where other regular new grads do not and must apply externally (and sometimes there is not much externally). 2. In a weak job market, having that ESN connection can really make the difference between finding employment after graduation, to having no employment at all and possibly having to relocate elsewhere. So be sure you carefully consider this when applying for a nursing program in the lower mainland.

I would say YES, BC in the lower mainland is pretty crappy in terms of nursing jobs right now. I was told that a certain large teaching hospital that traditionally hired lots of new graduates is in an overhire situation right now and is displacing/reallocating staff internally from units that are overstaffed to units which are understaffed. That means only experienced nurses are getting these jobs and that most new grads are really out of luck. Funding to the health authorities are being cut left, right and center. A recent news article indicated that Langara College's latest graduating class of 70 students, only 12 found full-time work locally. The rest are casual or still looking. Hospitals prefer hiring experienced nurses in this type of market when funding is tight. Training new grads is time consuming and costly. There are way too many new grad nurses graduating from all these BSN nursing programs locally, and too few job openings. You may be better off looking anywhere but BC.

The differences between these programs is the placements you'll be getting, if you care about that as opposed to waiting lists. Langara - has placements at BC Children's Hospital, BC Women's, as well as major hospitals; has ESN (Employed Student Nurse) program running still, which is favoured by some hospital employers on certain wards. Overall, heard it's a good program - the materials taught is very practical. BCIT - does not have placements in the above but has placements at other major hospitals; got rid of ESN program and is using a co-op placement format in final semester, meaning you can't work as an ESN when in this program; also, if you want to do pedes/maternity straight out of nursing school, you might want to consider Langara instead as you could get to ESN at Children's or BC Women's. BCIT's strength appears to be preparing nurses who will eventually go into high acuity/ICU/ER, moreso than the other specialties. Kwantlen - don't know a lot about this program but heard that some placements include a lot of community nursing, occasionally even prison facilities nursing, etc. Heard though that they have great courses on pathophysiology. Good luck.

Fraser Health might not care where you went to school, but Vancouver Coastal Health seems like they would take a closer look. Many of the nursing instructors at UBC are affiliated with VCH. BCIT is heavily affiliated with Fraser Health. I'm sure UBC nursing is harder to get into, with good reason. I've also heard that UBC's program has lots of clinical placements at Children's Hospital for pediatrics, which is something that is not in BCIT's program. So if you want to do pediatrics locally, you may have a better shot from UBC if Children's Hospital is your goal. BCIT has a condensed 3 year program now, but generally speaking, they do not tend to accept students who come fresh out of high school (there are rare exceptions, but very rare). They prefer students with some post-secondary or mature students. I'm sure both programs are equally good by now. The thing that you should worry about is which program will help you more with making connections in the work place, at the places you want to work for. This whole "BCIT" thing being better - well, maybe 10 yrs ago. Not anymore. Good luck with your decision!

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I got the impression that many germs invade through the nose (including MRSA), so would physically rinsing your nasal passages with normal saline on a regular basis (like once or twice a week) help to wash out the colonies? Especially if you are a high-risk person like a healthcare worker? That would at least help to sweep out some of the colonies? In the olden days, neti-pots and stuff were used. Now they have sinus rinses. Even for the swine flu, a doctor on TV said they were using sinus rinses / gargling saline to kill germs.

I think that in choosing between UBC and BCIT, it's not so much what the programs themselves are like, but it's more about the affiliations and the connections that the programs have with each hospital in the community. Although both programs do send their students to hospitals of various health authorities in the lower mainland, I think that UBC is still very heavily affiliated with Vancouver Coastal Health. BCIT is more heavily affiliated with Fraser Health. In fact, BCIT's nursing specialty courses are what Fraser Health uses to train their specialty nurses. Vancouver Coastal has their own in-house training programs for specialty nursing. I also hear that the UBC program does an extensive pediatric rotation and has many placements at Children's Hospital (which is the provincial health authority, PHSA). However, the BCIT program does not. So I guess in my opinion it would boil down to which health authority / hospital you might perceive yourself working for. And which specialty or area in nursing you want to pursue. Some units of certain hospitals will have a preference for certain grads from certain nursing programs because of the placement or faculty relationships.