is5512

How do any of these facts have to do with "mean nurses?" "Mean Nurses" say it's never their fault.

There are people in the world who disagree with me. I could even go so far as to say that there are "bad people" in the world. But to suggest that the behaviours of such people constitute an excuse for me to lie cheat steal and backbite colleagues is utter and complete hogwash. If there are Nurses who justify such reptilian conduct by saying "I'm a jerk because the corporation is mean," then I would rather die in a Wal-Mart parking lot than have them within 100-miles of my bedside.

With all due respect, Ma'am, the economy and the corporations etc are doing us a favor. They are helping us identify who has integrity and who does not.

Nurses are most definitely Not Mean. The only people who would say so are: 1) People who haven't been around long enough to know, and who cares what a bunch of new kids think anyway, 2) People who have been around too long, and who cares what a bunch of burn-outs think anyway, or 3) People who have so many personal problems that they can't see that They are the ones who are the source of the meanness. What are really irritating are the people who fit in all three categories at the same time. If the issue keeps coming up, then there might be the teensiest of possibilities that there might be some truth to it; and instead of getting all defensive about it, maybe we should try to fix the problem and not the blame.

...but, just out of curiosity, if all the Nursing Schools charged the same thing per credit hour and had the same admission standards, would you still choose Ivy? Would anyone? --- and I totally agree with you about people only in it for the money. I hope the apparent evaporation of jobs scares all the suckers and carpetbaggers off.

Had I stayed at Ivy, it would have been free, start to finish; such are the benefits of being "low income" (translation: "dead broke".) I had the grades, but wanted things I didn't find in their program - for one thing, I'm too old and mean to put up with a snotty professor. Push around some kid if you want; I don't play that game. My advice? Find the place that can give you what you need, understanding it ain't gonna be cheap.

Yeah, the disappointment stings a little bit. But honestly: Would you Really want to go to Ivy Tech if the tuition wasn't $20 (or is it now up to $30) per credit hour?

Hey Kiddo! I transferred over from Ivy, as have a coupla classmates. You are absolutely correct that it is ju$t a $midge expen$ive (especially given that I would have gotten thru Ivy for free). I'm a special case because I made the switch out of spiritual conviction, (yes, I did have the grades to have made it in). I've got some classmates from the Ft Wayne area and from elsewhere that came because it was (then) easier to get into. I've got some classmates that did the research and found that our program smoked everybody else's. IPFW is another option, and I pop in as a Guest Student there sometimes. What do you want to know? (pm or e-mail is fine, btw)

There are a few things you'll need to consider: 1) Meeting those criteria will indeed get you bumped up from Pre-Nursing to Nursing Major. However, there are generally more Nursing Majors than there are slots in clinicals for those majors. I do not get the sense from the school that those slots are filled strictly by GPA. I could be wrong on this point, but it seems to me their thinking is something along the lines of, "Student B is sitting at a 3.7 but just got here. Student C is a 3.65, but was here a semester earlier and won't give up. Send Student C The Letter." ...and by the way, an A from Ivy Tech makes people giggle here. 2) It is So easy to die at USF. There are some really bright students who were a semester ahead of me that are now my classmates. If you score a C in Theology or Algebra, you did something dumb. If you fail to get an 80 in Patho, Micro or anything that starts with NURS, then you are a "Failed To Progress." a habit of that, and you might wanna check out their Arts, Business or Education programs. If you fail to smoke the Math exam on the second week of Fundy, you'll be teetering on the edge of the cliff; know I/O and conversions inside and out. I would be glad to have you as a classmate, but you're in for some hard work, friend.

All these threads about the Preceptor From Heck scare me...especially since the PCH seems to be accompanied by Screaming Doctors and Abusive Co-workers. Ok, these "diamonds" can be found anywhere. But, I asked a Prof the other day which hospital I Really should try to get into. He mentioned "X" because of their training program and "Y" because of their culture of caring. It makes me wonder: Do some hospitals (or schools) have inherent cultures are breeding grounds for these types of people? How do you spot these cultures before you make a huge mistake and commit to them?

Well, I wish you all the best in your pursuits. And it would be nice if I had The Insight that made the whole world make sense. But it's still at The Nagging Suspicion stage. Something doesn't...quite...seem...right. Let me offer another example: In three different classes over the past week, the Prof was plodding through the material, then went off-script. "You may see a patient present (X). It has been my experience that you might want to suspect (Y) as a cause." One went so far as to say that stress would be the number one killer in our society, and offered suggestions on how we deal with it personally and clinically. In each instance, students began grumbling, "That isn't going to be on the test! Why is he/she wasting my time like this?" Is college now about GPA and a program slot instead of about learning? There are certainly greater problems in the world. There are certainly better credentialled people to deal with the problems. I choose to use neither fact as an excuse to shut my brain down. What few cells are left deserve to have an active end-of-life experience.

and That was great advice, Ma'am; thank you for that. For whatever it's worth, it was not that long ago I was a patient myself, and I stumbled across The Five Words I could say to almost any Nurse that would guarantee a smooth relationship: Yes Ma'am; You're In Charge.

So what are the imperfections and what are possible ways to correct them?

I raised the question. In response, there have been a few thoughtful answers. There have also been a few knee-jerk answers like "I'd rather have a smart uncaring Nurse than a dumb caring one." So I ask how many dumb ones we really do have? No, I would never suggest that the state of Nursing today is not perfect. The Emperor's clothes are just fine. And no, they don't make the Empress look fat at all. Honest.

Very well: shall we now go "there"? Should we instead be discussing the fact that Nursing is being damaged by too many clueless Nurses? That the NCLEX is far too easy to pass by using dumb luck?

...which begs the question: How many dumb people pass the NCLEX? Then, how many dumb NCLEX passers also fool their employers? I don't want anymore Nurses or Doctors with bad attitudes.

Actually, now that I think back on it, it served as a powerful lesson that I hope I never forget. If I survive this road (and many good people wash out because they are supposed to be good at something other than Nursing), I will have occasions that many things are happening at once; I will have to choose what to deal with at the given moment. But if a patient (or the person next to me in line at the grocery store) is hurting, there is no requirement for that person to meet my expectations of what is or is not sufficient cause or acceptable pain before they earn my solicitude. I will have mercy on those who hurt, or I will find something else to do.

I wonder how The Best do it. I live right down the road from the Close Cover Before Striking school. Their motto is, "If you've got the money, honey, I've got your degree. It just doesn't transfer anywhere." Then I think of a handful of places with such awesome reps, I'd feel like Cinderella if they called me. Shoot, I'd almost be willing to change my gender to match Cinderella's if doing so would get me in. I wonder how they pick who gets into "heaven."

Yeah. I'd refer back to post #2 in this thread. When a classmate and I went across the street, and were told "We look at the whole person," we had No Clue what they were talking about. Ok, I had to write an essay. I met with the Department Chair. Heaven only knows if other people I didn't know about were screening me and what criteria they used. It can't be money, because I'm dead broke. It sure ain't looks that got me in. I just...have a suspicion something's out there, and I don't have all the answers yet. Does that come when you're a Senior?

I'm not surprised. My point all along has not been that people shouldn't do well in school. The points has been that picking one criterion and assuming anyone who does well by that single standard will do well in all the other areas needed is...well...dumb.

My Chem professor, without knowing it and without even being aware of this discussion, just threw gasoline all over it. I asked him idly this morning if I was right to let my advisor (at the program I'm transferring to) talk me out of taking Forensic Science. Editing out his usual cheerful profanities, he told me to take whatever looked interesting. He then pointed out he was on the selection committee of a rather large university school of medicine (the one right down the road from you, BM3). He says they now ask applicants about oddball courses they took, and the committee has lately been taking a bunch more people out of arts programs instead of sciences and pre-med and hauling them off to Doctor School. OhMyGosh, a deliberate attempt to find "the right people" and not just the ones with the right scores in the right classes!

LiveToLearn, you have my deepest respect. I'm glad you have that type of program, and I would be lucky to have you teaching me. But I stand by my initial observations. We may well be screening for the wrong thing, and hoping the "right" kind of person survives the process, rather than identifying them early on and helping the along. Your program seems different, and that's wonderful. I clearly (at present) am in a dysfunctional one. I see the people leading it and I see the people poised to be graduated from it, and it scares me. I look at the Nurses the program has produced (from my recent perspectives as a patient) and I pray I never get so sick again that I have to be around these people. I also suggest there's a difference between a Nurse who is technically competant but emotionally bankrupt, and a sweet "box of rocks" type. I think I'd go with the latter....assuming he or she managed to sweet-talk the NCLEX in the first place.

B-M, a counter argument to that would be, "No, Nursing needs the best and brightest and most driven. They'll study hard, they'll go 4.0 in school, and then max out their NCLEX's. Who Cares that they're not interested in Nursing. The only important things are their brains and their work ethic." ...and part of me is praying real hard that I never get sick again...

Hi and welcome! I took APHY101 online and found it pretty much brutal. The Prof warned us (somehow I missed the warning, or I might have chickened out) that the fail rate was something outlandish...or that might have been her little way of motivating us. On the other hand, I've talked to people who took the class "live and in person" and had problems with their Prof, and they wished they'd taken it online. Go figger. The labpack we had to order with our books came with dissection tools and some preserved animal pieces-parts we had to carve up. It also contained my new friend George who is staring at me as I type. (But by the structure of some of the bones, I'm not sure if the name should be Georgina.) I felt handicapped by doing "simulated labs," but no one else in class mentioned any regrets. We had to visit a campus twice for proctored exams; everything else was done online. I can say the course is tough. My impression is if you work and worry your tail off, an A is possible. Hope that helps at least a little. God luck!

I'm a wannabe, and I had a fascinating conversation with a Nurse this evening. Actually, out of respect, I mainly shut up and listened. I will try to be as even-handed and dispassionate as I can in portraying what I heard: - I have watched too many people endure real suffering and have watched too many people die to have any patience at all with people whose problems don't begin to compare. I'm not going to hold anybody's hand; I'm going to work my tail off and give them the best care possible, but I won't tolerate their whining when other people have it much worse. I've been through worse, and I took it and encouraged myself. Kids? Totally different. I'll do anything I can for kids. I don't want a Doctor who'll chat with me about the weather. I want him to find the problem, fix it, and move on. - I have the greatest respect for this person and for what she has accomplished. And I realize it takes every kind of person to make the world complete. Still, what I heard strikes me as a variant of, "Eat your spinach because there are kids starving in (insert country here), and I don't want to hear your whining." Is this an attitude commonplace - or perhaps necessary for a Nurse's emotional survival? Or did I encounter someone out of the ordinary?