reznurse

quoting laughingrn "until the standards or education for apn are set (such as not allowing people into the program with no clinical experience having never worked as a nurse, online programs, " this statement seem contradictory to your preference for mds as there is no requirement for working as an rn or any other clinical or health care experience necessary for med school. you do go on to say that there is also an issue with np schools that don't require a lot of clinical hours which could be a problem, but for accreditation purposes the number of clinical hours for all schools is pretty standard and pretty high. i also wonder what you are basing your disdain of online programs on. is there some research somewhere showing that the outcomes aren't as good with online programs? i am not an np, but i work in nursing education and standards are important to me. also, reality is important and if there isn't research to support claims then the claims are just prejudices. i will tell you that the research supports online education and all education at the university level is moving towards more of an online format. people are very excited about it.

Here is a success story of nurses working together to fight against layoffs and benefit cuts while the hospital executives prosper. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/17/nurses-layoffs-executives-attack_n_862741.html

That's embarrassing. I hope it wasn't some kind of Freudian slip pun.

For me, the biggest driving force for the move to DNP is the fight for parody. It seems impossible to get parody without doctoral level education being the requirement.

I think that the route you should take depends on your circumstances. If you are able to get get into a BSN program right now, can afford it, etc. then it would make since on a timeline to go that route rather than get your ADN and then go back for your BSN, especially with a 3 semester wait. If you can't then I don't see a problem with going the ADN-BSN-MSN-? I don't know anything about schools in AZ, but generally I think if it is an accredited state university then the program will be recognized.

ANyone who says that optometrists and dentists don't call themselves doctor in a clinical setting is wrong. Like I said I have several family members who are optometrists, we have had this discussion and they call themselves doctors all of the time, b/c they are. Same goes with dentists, podiatrists, etc. Obviously there are different kinds of doctors and when necessary the patients need to be told the difference.

Do you think it is okay for an optometrist to be called Dr?

Several people in my family are optometrists, and they go by Dr. I also have a freind who is a dentist that goes by Dr. None of them went to med school, isn't this the same deal?

here, here Smitty! I am applying for the DNP instead of the PhD to become tenured faculty, and I certainly plan on using Dr.

Why are we the only industrialized nation to think that healthcare is a choice not a right? The only answer I can come up with is selfishness. People are so scared of loosing their healthcare coverage that the power elite can treat people unfairly and pay them less than they deserve in order to maximize their profits and buy their fifth or sixth vacation home. We are loosing our middle class in part because people don't feel that they have the power to ask for what they deserve. I am sorry I attacked you personally, I really mean that the social norm in America is selfish. People seem only to care for themselves and their own family rather than other Americans. That seems unAmerican to me.

When people say anything negative about war we are called unAmerican. When people say things in support of other Americans (let's not go to war for the profit of the military industiral complex) we are called unAmerican, even though the whole point behind saying the negative things is that we don't want our frinds, family and neighbors to be put in harms way for the profit of others. That is American! To say that you don't want to help ohter Americans with their healthcare is very selfish diosadelsol. Why can't we support other Americans? Our healthcare system is a joke. We rank 37th in quality in a study by the world health organization and spend the second most per capita. Let's be pro-America and help each other out when we can!

Wow, people are really misinformed. I worked for the USPHS (government run health care) and I never heard a single CRNA, or any other midlevel provider complain of their pay. The physicians were paid fairly and weren't required to work 60 hours a week. It was an excellent system. Thinking rationally about the system, if you cut the 20% of healthcare costs spent on billing services (don't know if everyone spends that much, but my brother who is an MD does) that would free up a lot of money. Also the compensation of a single insurance co CEO would pay for a thousand CRNA's salaries every year. From WEBMD: United Health Group CEO: William W McGuire 2005: 124.8 mil 5-year: 342 mil

The California Nurses Association have great ideas. http://www.calnurse.org/

yes the VA does provide quality care. So does IHS, the federal bereau of prisons, essentially all government run hospitals.

Americans don't go to Canada to seek healthcare b/c we can't. Their system is free for their citizens but not for Americans b/c we don't pay taxes there. Last summer I saw (on MSNBC, and NBC nightly news) stories of Americans going to India on surgery Vacations. I do pay more taxes than most nurses (inherited natural gas wells from my grandfather) and I am fine with that. I think that paying more taxes to help with healthcare for those more needy than I would be a great thing b/c it has the potential to make my country a nicer place to live. Of course I don't think that the success of Bill Gates is wrong. I do think that charging hundreds of dollars for a monolpolized operating system is.

I have seen on the news that many Americans are going to India for surgery; it has nothing to do with universal health care in Canada, England and Australia. I worked w/two Brits when I was teaching jr high, and they were appalled by the health care system here. I also have spent time in Canada and the healthcare system there is excellent. Don't buy into corporate slandor when they talk negatively about other healthcare systems around the world. It isn't factual. Also, I have worked at a VA hospital and the pay is good. It is amazing the number of people they provide care for with the budget they have. I also worked for the US Public Health Service, and again the pay was excellent. I guess when you take away 7 figure CEO salaries, and cut out the needless middlemen (insurance thieves) then you can do more healthcare for less money. As for how we could pay for universal healthcare, tax Bill Gates.

i am in the same boat. i probably even sit next to you in pathology.

Thanks puggymae. do you think i will be better or worse off as far as academia goes getting a MS in nursing education and then trying to get a phd as opposed to NP then PHD?

Hi everybody, I am looking for advice concerning the world of academia and nursing. I have a BSN and have been accepted to an NP program that I will not be able to finish until three years from now because of the core classes being full for a year (first time I've ever used one of those!). Anyway, I have thought hard about teaching and considered using an FNP masters in nursing to do so, however I have recently found a masters program with a focus in nursing education and I am thinking about doing that as it can be done much, much quicker. I am looking for comments/advice about getting a masters with an education focus vs. an FNP focus. How hard is it to find, get into, do a postmasters program for advanced practice nursing? How hard is it to find a teaching job? How hard is it to find a PHD program? etc., etc. Thanks

"I took 5 yrs to do a MSN program. Had to cut down hours as an RN to do it and lots of juggling... Now, if I were a HS grad and wondering what to do, why would I go into nursing? What are the possibilites for advancement? 4 yrs for BSN school. 5 yrs for MSN and if you required another 3-4 yrs to DNP. that is about 12 yrs. Even then, I would have to have a collaborating physician whereas an MD can practice alone. I could go to MD school, make more money, more independent, etc, etc and still do the same thing. Also, if I spent a few more years, I could specialize and make even more money. So, on a financial level, where is the sense? IF you told me that I would have to spend 12 yrs at least to be a NP, why would I even bother? IF I wanted to diagnose and treat patients, why not make more money while I am at it and go to MD school. Yes, I would have more debts but I would be able to pay them of faster. So time wise, why spend more time for the same result?" The time/money issue that you have outlined is faulty. It sounds like the reason it took you five years to finish an MSN is because you went part time while working and coping with Lupus. A person simply can't work while going to med-school. A person should be able to finish an MSN degree in three years or less of fulltime study. If (hypothetically) a person worked and went to med-school part time it would probably take more like 15 years to finish instead of the 12 years as you have outlined. The landscape of health care is changing, and I think there is a great oppurtunity for nurses to secure a spot in the future of it. A doctoral degree for nursing is a great start. Will it improve the level of care? Who knows, as people have stated, things are still in their infancy, so there is not enough hard data to support either argument. However, I believe that offering higher degrees for those people that choosesto pursue them is a very good thing.

Thanks sailornurse. Those are pretty good numbers, I imagine that Oklahoma is similar, if not we might end up out here! How's the teaching life?

Does anyone have insight into NP in Oklahoma?

Thanks TraumaRUs. I am from Oklahoma (working on the Navajo reservation in New Mexico) and I know someone who opened up an NP clinic about two years ago in rural Oklahoma who seems to be doing very well, I am just worried about the power of the AMA and them feeling threatened by NP's. My brother and sister inlaw are both optometrists and get paid the same as an opthamologist for the same procedure. I don't see any reason that an NP shouldn't be compensated at the same rate as an MD for the same thing. I'm not saying that I think an NP should be able to do the same thing as an MD (don't know enough about the whole deal to have an opinion about that), but when they do they should get paid! It is crazy to me that our health care system is set up the way it is; that big companies run MD practices. I bet you've learned a lot in your role. I would like to become an advanced practice nurse and continue my learning, however with our student loans (private college for my wife's undergrad) and all of our bills, I want to be sure that I can make a good living as one. Thanks again

Hey there everybody, although I've been reading these forums for years now, this is my first post. I too have questions about NP. I have been accepted to a program and am due to start in the spring, but I have reservations about continuing in nursing. I also applied to podiatrist school and it looks like I will be accepted. I know that these are different fields of medicine, but they share the essentials of caring for people and helping them have the best life that they can, as well as provide a good living for my family (?) Therein lies my reservation. i know that it varies from state to state, but how hard is it to open up your own practice? what are the salaries like these days? is the market saturated/getting saturated? Why aren't NP's reimbursed at the same rate as MD's for the same procedure? NP would be easier on my family in the short run, but with a podiatrist's salary my wife would never have to work again (very nice). anyway, these are a few of my concerns. Do with them what you will. thanks for the info. i've got from reading here thus far!