trytounderstand

Thank you for treating your patient as a human being. Everyone has a right to know all their options and to make their own decisions even if it may not be what the operating room or doctor or a family member thinks is expedient and or what needs to be done. In the past I have had experience with hospital staff attempting to rush the patient to make a decision and to do what is most expedient for the hospital and staff to be able get their job done. Not every situation is life threatening. You have scared, confused, drugged, and possibly uninformed human beings laying on the bed before you. Sometimes there are options, and the patient should be aware of all options whether it be surgery, type of anesthesia, and whether he/she wants a specific test done. Once a patient makes an informed decision it is their decision. As we all know, at times it does have to be done quickly to save a life, but once the patient says "stop" in whatever form it is said. Then it is stop, take a breath, and make sure the patient understands and is making the correct decision for them. Once it is done to a human body there is no going back and changing it.

Although there are circumstances and patients who would fly off the handle and react in inappropriate it is their body and their medical records. They do have a right to view any report or notes and ask any questions they feel are necessary for their care. As far as patients not being able to see their records until the doctor has had a chance to talk with them. There are instances when the patient having the report in front of them when they visit the doctor has prevented unnecessary surgery or treatment plans. A second opinion was requested after the patient politely listened to what the first doctor wanted to do as far as surgery was concerned which ended in a totally different treatment plan. With less chance of surgery complications. Have also witnessed doctors trying to give a patient the bum's rush and talk them into treatment and tests that were not appropriate for their situation.

If the situation was as the poster wrote and he made a comment this is not a spectator sport, then he did speak out. The nurses although they may have been affected by the comment should have explained again exactly what was going on and respected his dignity. If he tried to cover himself and the prep nurse did not cover the area that at time did not need to be exposed then he was speaking out. But again no one here can fix this. The poster and her husband need to take it on up the chain and report the situation and their feelings. All patients and nurses deserve to be treated with dignity.

So a patient who is alone, embarrassed, under the influence of drugs makes a comment that hurts a nurses feelings he/she then should be treated in a manner that only makes the situation worse. That is the matter you need to bring up to the patient advocate. The nurses may not have responded in a professional manner. You have had responses and no one on here can make the situation any better. To bring this back around to the topic, what if the situation had been reversed and it was a female patient with male nurses? Would this have occurred and how would management handle it?

This is very important whether the patient be male or female. Communication from both sides. If you are truly uncomfortable about a situation the patient needs to speak up. Although the nurses are very busy and sometimes running to put out many fires just a few seconds can make all the difference in the world to a scared, confused patient. And actually will make the experience better for the nurse in the long run. But as others have said no one here was in on this particular experience. Many have stated their feelings and even commiserated with the poster. Many have given good advice. At this point the event cannot be changed, but perhaps if they speak with the patient advocate it will not happen to the next patient.

Your point has been made here. Yes guys usually don't ask the right questions and they usually will not speak up when they are embarrassed. A lot of women do the same thing, let's just get this over with. You have received sympathy and some good recommendations. This has happened and your husband was upset. Which in turn, has upset you. The only thing you can do now is to take everyone's advise, get your ducks in a row, and talk with the patient advocate or manager. You may never know what the outcome is but something will be done. Keep this in mind if someone wants to send you or your family member to this facility and request to be sent somewhere else. Then talk it over with the doctor and the nursing staff beforehand.

I did not see this part so he was expecting to only have one nurse assigned. That does make a difference. Please go to the meeting take a copy of the email you received and calmly and quietly explain what happened and how your husband felt. If possible have him with you or at least a written and signed account of what the occurrence was and how it affected him. The management may not this is happening to their male patients and need to be made aware so they can rectify the situation.

The thing is and I know coming on here and expressing your upset may be a way for you to get closure. But remember 99.9% of the folks on here would not purposely embarrass and try their best to protect patient dignity. You have come upon an institution that a member of their staff is not respecting their patient. From personal experience, there are a few who have no compassion for the fact that the patient is embarrassed. But speak up. In this situation yes she should have realized he was embarrassed and covered him as much as possible. As I have stated before there are some facilities that I have found their nurses not respectful and I just will not use those facilities again if at all possible. You have to contact that facility and realize you may never know what the outcome is. For future reference talk respectfully with the nursing staff request that they provide scrub pants, tear away shorts, and take it upon yourself to do such things as when going for a ct scan you wear clothing that does not contain metal....yoga pants, sports bras...which will help preserve your dignity. For male or female patients take your own gown to wear during physicals, if you find the little sheets they provide do not give you the coverage take your own. Talk with your doctor and nurse about how you feel and that you want better coverage and if they can provide it they usually will. I know it is a little late now to change what happened. But if you report this to the facility it may not happen to the next person. And you know now that you need to speak with your doctor or the facility about what will happen during your care.

If this is your true concern then the higher ups need to know. They need to be aware that at least one male patient felt uncomfortable being treated in this manner. As far as the shaving goes, sometimes you have to ask because to be honest nurses perform these types of preparations all the time so they become desensitized to it. If you do not ask the proper questions before hand and do not speak up he/she may not realize. Once he tried to cover himself, she should have realized that and just given him a towel to cover the area that did not need to be exposed, and if that is your concern then that does need to be reported. Now, that having been said, you will also have to realize that if they were busy there may be more one than nurse checking on the patient. They have to be sure before release that the patient is ready to be released with no problems. Sometimes there can be issues that have to be monitored before the patient can be released. For instance if you have abominable surgery your urine has to be monitored for blood. My other question is once they completed their examination did they cover the patient before they the left room and not left him there to be exposed to anyone else who may have come into the room. To be honest, I have had experiences at some facilities that I will not return to just because of what I perceived as insensitivity to my and other family members dignity. One comment made to a patient that was a little embarrassed was "We prefer you naked anyway. Makes our job easier." Also with that having being said, no one on here can make it any better. You need to speak with the manager or patient advocate and hopefully this will not happen to another patient whether they are male or female. This prep nurse may also be upsetting female patients and no one has spoken up.

I agree to disagree too. As always there are exceptions to the rules. There may be valid reasons to shield the patient or family members. Also as I view any of my test results, I have common sense enough to know to wait until I can see my doctor with any questions. I also have common sense enough to know that in doing research you do not believe everything that read on the internet. I feel that if patients or family members should have the ability to reach out to a patient advocate. If the situation is becoming overwhelming for either the patient or the caregivers it can be mediated at the time. Perhaps with a better outcome for everyone....

If they do not have a role, they have no business being in the way. Trauma cases are life and death situations. The patient comes first not a student or any other onlookers...

So in other words keep the patient in the dark....recently know someone who would have had surgery if they had believed the first doctor they were talking to.....the reason why a question was raised by spouse was because they had received results from patient portal and knew what questions to ask.... While I agree that some patients and family members are over the top and many may pose a threat to themselves and others, keeping someone in the dark over their test results and findings is morally wrong and results in incorrect informed consent...Reporting someone as being argumentative or non-compliant because they do not want to take a medication that they know will actually make them physically ill is wrong...patients not having a system to request assistance from patient advocate is wrong....as in all things two personalities can clash in any situation and only having one side of the story documented and then to be able to hide those reports is morally wrong.... Patients or family members should have copies of the reports whether they understand them or not. They should be able to ask any questions that they have and have them answered honestly. They should have a list of medications that have been prescribed and be allowed to decline or request substitution without judgment. They are the ones who live inside that body and they should have the ability to make a choice. I do agree that at the time of the difference of opinion the patient maybe should not read what has been documented about them but there are always two sides to every story. If the patient or family is not allowed to add their opinion or ask for help with a situation they feel is detrimental to their care, are they receiving the best medical care? They should be able to ask for help without judgment and it should not affect the quality of their care...

But...perhaps they do remember but all they remember is they were chastised or told they were argumentative or non-compliant...patients should have the ability to read the nurses notes and question what is being said about their behaviors. At the time they were having bad behaviors it may have been out of anxiety, fear of what was happening, not understanding what was happening. I have witnessed nurses who have become upset and reported bad behaviors because a patient asked why or wanted to make their own choices about their body...reporting that patient was argumentative and non-compliant just because they denied a medication or questioned the need for the medicine or even asked for second opinion....This record may follow the patient for several days in a hospital situation and they should have the ability to explain why they were upset, why the did not want to take the medicine or why they wanted a pair of tear away shorts that somehow the nurse kept forgetting to bring and other caregivers made sarcastic remarks about the patient requesting such shorts. On the other hand yes you should report if the patient becomes threatening, calls names, is offensive in any way. No one should have to feel unease whether it be nurse, doctor, CNA or patient. Yes that should be documented but the patient should still have the ability to repudiate and defend themselves. Both sides of the story needs to be reported and kept on file. At the same time if there is real time access to medical records, there should also be real time access for patients to contact a patient advocate. Get someone in there to mediate a bad situation before it goes totally off the rails. If a patient feels that he/she is not being heard or advocated for, there should be a way for that patient to get a assistance while the situation is happening not days later after whatever is happening has already taken place. Perhaps bad decisions or outcomes on all sides....

For instance, myself I can be smiling, talking on the phone and having a nice conversation with someone even when in terrible pain. Too many years of customer service....my brain has been trained to push the pain away....the same as one person can be a 3 or 4 when actually there is something terribly wrong...but they have pushed what they are feeling away. Know of recent circumstance where patient had been having appendicitis symptoms for days refused to go to doctor, finally ended up in hospital. They refused morphine for the pain just asked for ib tablets to dull it and when examined screamed out in pain. Had to be rushed to emergency surgery....but as presenting with low temperature and expressing pain as 3 or 4 ER did not think it was acute....when it was almost to the point of having a burst appendix. So after all that having it recorded in your records does not necessarily mean you were lying or trying to use it to get extra pain meds...it could mean that you are good at doing customer service and hiding the pain...or it may be the patients coping mechanism...and nurses who follow up with care should be aware that the patient may actually be in pain.... Yes, we had this happen years ago....requesting the nurse contact doctor they would state they had...never got answers to questions. When questioning the doctor he swore up and down the nurses never contacted him. If we had seen the notes we would have known who to call on the carpet... This I believe is very important...to give informed consent a patient should be able to view all their labwork xrays etc...they should have the opportunity to ask all questions before giving consent to any treatment...its amazing sometimes how a second opinion can change a situation....say one doctor not letting the patient view the results giving a song and dance and the patient suddenly is in surgery...when the patient insisted on second opinion the story had changed....learned the hard way to always insist on seeing the actual results with report before agreeing to any procedure.... Also if a patient or a family member sees the nurses notes and sees that the patient is over the top which can happen in an emergency situation on both sides of the coin...whether it be the patient, the patient's family or the nurse involved because we are all only human and all may be stressed....the situation might be handled and mediated by a third party to get everybody on the same page as getting proper care for the patient, proper respect for the nurse, proper respect for family and make everybody a little less stressed....

Absolutely correct. If a patient has to have an IV or procedure or care done of course it has to be done, but to allow an inexperienced student to attempt more than twice was wrong.... If this is a true story and not a fabrication to get reactions, perhaps that is why the coordinator became angry...not because of not following orders, but because they got caught disrespecting patients and allowing student nurses to practice on someone who did not need an IV inserted. Which leads to the question of what else are they allowing them to practice that is not medically necessary on vulnerable, defenseless patients when no one is there to say "Stop!" Or ask why.... Case in point many, many years ago, I know of a patient who was in the hospital, when the bill was received charges for pap smears, gyno exams, and other tests that were made that the patient was not even aware had happened and she was not hospitalized for anything concerning gynecological issues. At the time she was being given medicine to help her relax and stay calm and a family member was not able to be with her. If it was in this day and age, I would be suggesting to that patient that they needed to contact a lawyer...

First of all sticking a patient 7 times whether they are sedated or not is uncalled for. What else was she letting you practice without the patient's permission? Was there an actual need for an IV to be inserted or were you participating in an event where a patient was being used as a guinea pig? From someone who has issues with getting an easy IV insertion done. Even for experienced nurses it usually takes at least 2 sticks. I have ended up with terrible bruising and sore arms from these IV insertions and even just blood work. In this case if you were just "practicing" your fellow student may have caused the patient harm for no reason. Remember you are the patient's advocate and if you are witnessing something that should not be happening it is your responsibility to take care of that patient. Just because they are sedated and will not be aware of what is happening does not mean they are to be disrespected in any form whether it be IV insertion, prostrate exam, or lady partsl exams. If there is not an actual medical need for it, it should not be done without the patient's permission or knowledge. After having been on my soapbox, learn from this experience. Stick with what you are supposed to be doing and keep in mind that at times you are the only advocate a patient has.

Be a patient of one of the entitled ones(and it's not only the new grads)....although on the grand scale most our empathetic and caring and advocate for the patient....personal experience has shown me that some and granted they are few and far between think they know the patient's body better than the patient. Get offended when the patient even dares to ask "why?" or asks for a different plan of care such as substituting a drug they have used before compared to what the doctor has ordered. Possibly, especially in a hospital setting, the doctor has never cared for the patient or actually knows the patient's history.

As a patient, I have been told by many specialists, this is what I specialize in I have treated you for that condition. I am done. You need to return to your family physician for care and if you need me again he/she will send you back. I only look at you from my perspective...such as I am not a trauma doctor or I specialize in ortho not general care. Many times, I have watched the facial expression or eyes of the attending nurse and realized that I needed to ask more questions or just say no to the attending physician. Or had a nurse when alone with me say if you don't want to do this you don't have to. Then I know that it is time to say what a minute or to just ask why. I have also been talked into expensive testing that if I had listened to the attending nurse or my inner warning system would not have been necessary. I have also had physician order medicine that is in the same family as something that I am very allergic to and it was my pharmacist that caught it and refused to fill the script. As far as Dr. Google goes, yes it is a form of information but....and this is big but....you do not base your medical care on Dr. Google. I have found information that explained my condition more than the doctor or nurse did and found suggestions that helped in the long run. But you do not base your medical care on searching the internet...And, I will say that in finding this information, I was able to discuss the findings with my primary physician and get the care that I needed rather than continue with more testing that was getting me no where. At some point, you have to trust your doctor, but you also need to watch, listen, and observe.

First question, why did you even have your personal phone out in a patient/client room. Why were you making a phone call? Was it important or an emergency? Were you just chatting with a friend? You stated you were about to leave work. That personal phone call unless it was a dire emergency could have waited until you were no longer responsible for taking care of patients. You should contact the agency and respectfully request the reasons why the facilities have requested you not to return. Then figure out how to improve if you want to stay in this line of work.

As a patient I can tell you I appreciate when someone will listen to me on such things if you give me that antibiotic in pill form, I will be puking everywhere please give it to me via iv. No I don't want that xyz pain medication because I will turn into a very angry patient that will need even more medication for you to deal with me. Please don't give me opiates start with minimal medication first. Please don't give me anxiety medication because my body reacts oddly to it. I know my own metabolism and I know what my body will do with certain medications. Once you have made the patient as comfortable as you can with what has been ordered, it is not your fault and needs to be passed on to someone who can deal with it and knows the patient history. If it out of your scope of practice there is nothing you can do other than to call for help and keep advocating for the patient. Please do not tell a patient that you will call their doctor and then not do it. Once a patient finds out you have not followed through they will lose all trust in you. If they are threatening to leave AMA because you won't up their pain medication, then get someone else needs to come in and talk to them about their options. The same as when a patient refuses a medication or some type of care you cannot take that personally either. It is their body and their choice. Once you have explained what is the possible result and the patient understands then all you can do is keep giving patient care and hope for the best. As far as a patient leaving AMA, they have a right to leave and go somewhere else for a second opinion, even when you feel it is not in their best interest. Once you have explained all that and you are sure they understand, then again it is their body, their choice. But if you are ever physically threatened then get someone there as soon as possible.

Many times when a patient is alone they may not advocate for themselves sometimes out of anxiety and knowing that they do not have back up. Sometimes the anxiety causes them not to be thinking clearly or if they have been any kind of medication that can be the cause. They are alone in a room partially or completely disrobed and no one there to stand up for them against a wall of professionals. Sometimes they may even answer the questions wrong due to stress and anxiety and without someone there to correct it, it could lead to a disaster or the patient becoming more vulnerable than they already are. Making it not only devastating for the patient but an issue for the nurses and doctors as well. Spoke with an elderly couple lately and their reaction to not being able to be there for each other because of the covid regulations was heartbreaking and they were not covid patients. Not being able to accompany to the er. Not being able to visit during a short stay. Not being there to talk with the doctors. It was devastating to them not to be able to be there for each other depending on strangers to take care of them. Each worried about the other. I have had the experience of having a roommate in semi-private room who was confused and could not figure out how to use her call light when she needed help. She kept calling out for a nurse. I of course pushed my own call light and asked for someone to please come check on her. If someone had been with her that situation would not have happened. On the other hand, I have also been the patient in a semi-private room who the roommate's family decided it was time for a family gathering and seemed to be having a party. That is when there needs to be someone who can step in and help the nurses mediate the situation without causing hard feelings between the family, nurses and fellow patients.

That is absolutely right! There is no need for the whole family to be there crowded around the bedside in a normal hospital setting. But there is a need for a person to be there who is willing to be the eyes and ears for the nurses and doctors. Who is willing to refill glasses of water and hold urinals or assist where they can. There is a need for the other person who will step in and and say "Remember last time you took that you passed out!" or "Don't give them that they will puke and not just a little!" or to be sure the patient's dignity is respected by helping to keep the patient covered. Or if the patient is too scared, nervous, anxious or under the influence of drugs to say I want a second opinion. For the patient suddenly they are no longer in control of their environment. They are placed in a hospital gown and feel they do not have the ability to just walk out if needed or to request a different nurse or doctor if their personalities clash. The same as if a nurse or a doctor has an issue with a patient they should be able to have an advocate as well and be able to switch out of the situation. If the patient's room has suddenly become party central there should be an advocate who can step in and say party time is over only the spouse or significant other stays and the rest need to move on. Some times it is what it is and all have to do the best they can. But in the majority of cases one family member should always be with the patient if at all possible. Just in speaking with friends and community members this isolation and fear due to COVID has been devastating. To have to leave a family member who needs you to be with them is heartbreaking and in some cases it has been unnecessary or has resulted in patients not getting the care they need because they do not want to take the chance of dying alone.

I have said this all along since all this mess happened. If a child can have a designated support/advocate so can an adult. There is just as much chance that the person with the child can carry something out of the hospital as someone with an adult. In times of stress, anxiety, pain a rational adult who normally can make logical, clear decisions can have just as many issues making those same decisions and understanding what is being said as a child. They may make a decision that later they regret and realize was the wrong decision. I have had experience of being alone and scared and facing a terrible decision and it all turned out okay. But almost 40 years later, I still have nightmares of being alone in the dark with no one there. Also, I have had the experience of having a patient advocate in a family member who stood up for me and stopped a bad decision. If I had been alone things could have turned out differently because the nurses could not stop what the doctor had ordered without someone there to say "No!" I have also had the experience with my spouse being railroaded into what turned out would have been an unnecessary surgery and weeks in rehab. In this case the nurses were playing along and if I had not been there to witness the demand for a second opinion before surgery, things may have turned out completing different. When the questions were raised to the group of nurses we were reported as being argumentative and noncompliant instead of them getting hold of the patient advocate to straighten things out. I will have to say once we were away from that group of nurses which seemed to be young inexperienced nurses more interested in arguing with the older more experienced nurses, the care was great and my spouse had nurses who were compassionate and understanding. I do know that we will not willingly use that facility again. On the other hand having a roomful of family members is not necessary for your everyday run of the mill hospital stay and in this day and age of huge private rooms as long as the advocate is respectful and stays out of the way there is no reason why he/she cannot stay in the room. If they become demanding and putting extra work on the nursing staff then the nursing staff should have an advocate that will step in and address the issue. As far as what has happened during this pandemic, it was understandable in your huge hospitals and areas that were overcome with the amount of patients with the covid-19 to have to restrict visitors. There still should have been a way for a family member to have been there. But in the areas where the covid patients could be isolated and there was low incidence of cases reported "why?" could not one adult accompany patients for surgery, treatment, visits to urgent care or doctor office? Why did patients have to wake up confused and scared? Why did patients have to make life changing decisions without someone there? As time goes on, in my opinion those questions will continue to be asked....it is really heartbreaking to hear someone say I am afraid to go to the hospital because I don't want to die alone.....

True story...have you even been alone in a dark hospital room scared and anxious and no one there? Have you ever been used to emergency surgery not knowing what the outcome would be? I have...it did not matter that I had capable and caring nurses and doctors surrounding me and encouraging me, it only mattered that I was alone...just saying of course there should be limits but there should always be a support person there, someone who the patient reaches out for in the dark.... On the other hand, small children should be kept to a limit just because it is a hospital. No and third cousin once removed should not be sitting at the beside, but a spouse/parent/partner should.....

Have witnessed this situation personally. Have seen supposed female healthcare professionals become very offended and sarcastic because a male patient requested his dignity be preserved. Also have witnessed female healthcare professionals saying and making suggestive comments to male patient that if it had been a male healthcare professional saying it to a female patient the females would have been up in arms.