Problems with Rn's in clinicals

Hey Bonnie, don't give up - there are great nurses out there. For the average overstretched, tired, burned out nurse who stays in the job for the money and the benefits, students are thought of as just one more problem dropped on them by management. Some may know that they don't have the skills and knowledge that they need to adequately support you and so they are distressed and fearful that if something goes wrong that they won't be able to cope.

You and I both know that this is WRONG. You are part of the solution, but unfortunately they don't see that. Yes, it takes a bit of time to explain things, but when a nurse feels that she/he is too busy to even swallow their own saliva because of workload, it's hard to make the effort. I was an older student, having already had "another life", and to have RNs rolling their eyes as I took the time to ensure that what I did was right, really hurt. Thank God for the kindness of some instructors and nurses who supported us.

Please just give them a bit of a break, and resolve not to become like them. These same RNs will be your colleagues, depressing as it may seem, but I hope that you will be able to rise above their unpleasant behaviours and help them to see that you are the solution to short staffing and increased workload and that they just need to help you get through your schooling.

Good luck!

I do not understand this type of treatment.

Could you be more specific?

I personally have been rather annoyed at the latest crop of nursing students.

They want a separate report, instead of waiting to get report with their preceptor. This is completely out of line, not to mention time-consuming - time I do not have.

Sorry, I do not have time to give two separate reports in the A.M. after a 12-hour shift on a busy Med/Surg unit. Especially when it's 6:45, and I'm running around, trying to get ready to give report anyway! :angryfire

Plus, some of them have an "attitude" ~ pointing things out to me. Well, hey, if I had the luxury of being a student again and not having five other ACUTE patients, maybe I could sit around and theorize about why Patient A. acted this way...blah, blah...but thanks for pointing it out to me!

:rotfl: Does any one else have problems with Rn's in the hospitals when attending clinicals? I guess they forget they were students once, or they think they were born a nurse. I do not understand this type of treatment.

Could you please specify the problems?

There are numerous threads on these subject.

I guess my biggest problem with the RNs we had to deal with this semester is the disappearing act. just because I have 2 of your patients does not mean that at some point you won't be needed. As LPN students we are not allowed to touch anything IV. Some of these RNs expects us to keep track of everything we need to do plus run and find them (which usually takes at least 30 mins) and let them know if meds need to be pushed IV. OUr instructor has told them several times that this is unappropriate. I don't know where they go and hide but I know it is not near the patients. My biggest issue is with the aides. they hide the BP machines on us so we can't find them. they sit there and talk sh*t about us and one end of the hallway and then will come and ask us for help because they are behind. I got screamed at by one (old enough to be mom) because I called her a Nurses "Aide" and not Nurses "Assistant" I just looked her in the eye and said " I am just going by the title on your badge, If you have a problem with it talk to HR about a title change" then this paticular aide and another are complaining that we are not doing any baths or bed changes. well we know have 4 patients to take care of and our instructor posted a sign at the nurses station that we are now taking care of 4 patients and will be passing meds, doing assessments, dressings etc. We will NOT be giving baths, taking vitals, or changing beds. so these two are yammering about how we are not doing anything blah blah. So as I walk pass i hear this and say " The duties we are supposed to be doing are clearly posted at the nurses station if you have any questions, otherwisou the patient in blah blah is requesting a shower" My instructor said I did a great job and wasn't snotty or rude. we have several of the aides and it is like they are jealous or something. As i was walking by a room I heard one call out for help so I went. She had a rather large patient on the toliet and needed help to get her up and wipe her. so I asked what I should do (like wipe or hold her up) she said you are going to be an LPN right? well you had better wipe, you will need the practice. so I wiped, but when got into the hallway, I told you will never treat me like that in front of a patient again. i was so pissed at her. My instructor finally had to have a talk with the charge nurse of th floor because we were getting treated so bad. helped a little but not much so she had to spend most of her time on this floor but the students on the other had really good nurses so she could spend more time protecting us as she put it!!

Why do you need a BP machine?

I have been a nurse for 11 years, and have generally done manual BPs. They are more accurate, and less of an infection risk.

:rotfl: Does any one else have problems with Rn's in the hospitals when attending clinicals? I guess they forget they were students once, or they think they were born a nurse. I do not understand this type of treatment. We are all in this profession to help people, and it seems like they would welcome the help. Our instruction has been a RN for 27 years and is a GREAT!! instructor. And she can not understand this either. We have all approached the nurses with great respect, and this does not work at all.

HELP :uhoh21:

After I graduated from nursing school many years ago I always promised myself that I would not forget what it was like to be a student and I have not. There are unfortunately those RN's that do not have the patience for students.

On the flip side of this though, you; as a student; must understand something. While your instructor is wonderful.... is she a practicing RN that goes to work full-time in a hospital?

Students do not realize what the RN's in a hospital are being put through. Short staffing, being made to work extra shifts over their appointed position, made to take extra patients, the BS from the administrators that "you" aren't doing your job good enough (well, maybe that is because I am trying to do everyone else's job also!!!), the pay really SUCKS for what is expected of us. I've heard students say they "get this", but until it affects you directly as the primary RN and hits you in your pocketbook, you will not understand.

I would say that many times that you think a nurse is being mean, she/he is not doing it intentionally and other things are probably playing a part into that. (A note in his/her mailbox saying you did not do this good enough, he/she needs to work extra, by the way, we are short a nurse today so you will have extra patients, also there are no nurse's aides so you have to do the baths, vitals, and all other needs, so-and-so will be getting here late so you need to stay for a couple hours extra after you were SUPPOSED to get off work...etc...etc...etc...)

So please, as you state you want understanding from us the RN's. I as a RN ask for understanding from you...nursing is not glamorous, nor well paid, it is mostly political BS that makes it quite hard to even like what you do. And since it seems that patients are getting meaner and meaner and act like the world owes them something, it is even getting hard to say I "love" my patients.

When you pass the NCLEX and you've practiced nursing for a couple of years, please post back on this board about your state of mind.

Good luck.

Why do you need a BP machine?

I have been a nurse for 11 years, and have generally done manual BPs. They are more accurate, and less of an infection risk.

Seems nurses and PCAs are only being taught to take BPs with whatever machine is handy. We get LPN and RN students at my hospital and most of them don't even come in with a stethascope. How can they do an assessment?

Even if they are not doing baths or meds, say the student is there for treatments only, would s/he not assess that pt before performing the treatment? At least what I call a mini assessment (assessing the system or general area of concern).

How can anyone talk intelligently about an abdominal dsg change without including an assessment of the abdomen?

Any thoughts students? What are you being taught.

That was kind of off the original post, just something I thought of while thinking about our students.

I have never had the opportunity to work with them for more than a few minutes since I work nights.

At our hospital, I find most of the students hang near their pt rooms and talk to the off-going shift as we make our final rounds. For me and most of my co-workers, that's 0645 - 0730.

For those students who do run into rude nurses, just figure those nurses are very likely miserable human beings and pay no attention to them! At least no more attention than you have to.

Oh yea, BTW, I really prefer not to use the BP machines. I tend to rely on my own ears, specially when a BP is alarmingly high or low.

Hi. I agree with both sides. I am a new LPN, I have had some of the things you mentioned happen to me at my clinicals. The CNA's though were all very respectful. I really only had a problem with two of the RN's. If they don't want to be assigned a student, they should let the instructor know. However, as a practicing new grad in LTC I can relate to the RN's on the side of how busy they are and do not have time to listen to every little thing you want to report. I have CNA's coming up to me all during my med pass telling me things like "so-and -so has an abrasion or a scab" somewhere on their body. They actually stand by my med cart and expect me to go inspect this right away. I have an allotted time to give meds legally and cannot take the time to go and look at every little thing. Now if there is a fall or something, that is another story. A nurse has to prioritize (I am still learning) and know what is urgent and what can wait. You will make it through your clinicals, just hang in there, we all know how tough it can be. Good luck to you!

Seems nurses and PCAs are only being taught to take BPs with whatever machine is handy. We get LPN and RN students at my hospital and most of them don't even come in with a stethascope. How can they do an assessment?

Even if they are not doing baths or meds, say the student is there for treatments only, would s/he not assess that pt before performing the treatment? At least what I call a mini assessment (assessing the system or general area of concern).

How can anyone talk intelligently about an abdominal dsg change without including an assessment of the abdomen?

Any thoughts students? What are you being taught.

That was kind of off the original post, just something I thought of while thinking about our students.

.............

Oh yea, BTW, I really prefer not to use the BP machines. I tend to rely on my own ears, specially when a BP is alarmingly high or low.

I'm an RN student, and all of our clinicals are designed for us to provide all needed care for our assigned patients (this increases from 1 - 3 patients during the first 3 semesters), not just specific treatments. We are there at the beginning of the shift to get report from the out-going nurse along with the rest of the staff and then we're off & running with assessments, meds, dsg. changes, treatments & whatever else. We do vitals, baths & linen changes too, except when we have 3 patients -- then we're expected to appropriately judge the care needed by all 3 pts. and ask the aides for help if necessary to get it all done in a timely manner -- it's a lesson in time management & delegation.

And yes, we're taught to auscultate BPs, though there are generally dinemaps floating around. :)

I'm an RN student, and all of our clinicals are designed for us to provide all needed care for our assigned patients (this increases from 1 - 3 patients during the first 3 semesters), not just specific treatments. We are there at the beginning of the shift to get report from the out-going nurse along with the rest of the staff and then we're off & running with assessments, meds, dsg. changes, treatments & whatever else. We do vitals, baths & linen changes too, except when we have 3 patients -- then we're expected to appropriately judge the care needed by all 3 pts. and ask the aides for help if necessary to get it all done in a timely manner -- it's a lesson in time management & delegation.

And yes, we're taught to auscultate BPs, though there are generally dinemaps floating around. :)

You are the first student I have "read" in a long time that is being educated the way we were way back when. I was amazed when I started readig some of the posts here (ON other threads) and then started paying more attention to what the students do when at my hospital. They do this or that but don't seem to ever be responsible for all of a pts care.

I am so glad some schools are doing it how, IMHO, is the best way!

Thank you! Glad to have heard from you.

:rotfl: Does any one else have problems with Rn's in the hospitals when attending clinicals? I guess they forget they were students once, or they think they were born a nurse. I do not understand this type of treatment. We are all in this profession to help people, and it seems like they would welcome the help. Our instruction has been a RN for 27 years and is a GREAT!! instructor. And she can not understand this either. We have all approached the nurses with great respect, and this does not work at all.

HELP :uhoh21:

I second that. There are a lot of us out there who love to work with students. Many factors come into play. There are nurses who do not like to teach (are actually scared of it) and therefor are not comfortable with students. Forget them as they will never change. They cannot think "outside the box",so to speak.

Some nurses get sort of distant because some instructors are not visible when the students are working with patients, hence a lot of responsibility falls to the RN who really has those patients for that shift. I understand that your instructor is not like that. It's just an observation. There are instructors out there who do not necessarily know an area of specialty and they are not helpful to their students.

You just have to seek out the nurses who seem to want to be helpful to students. There is no magic formula to finding them.

I'm soory I cannot be more help. Maybe your instructor could approach the nurse manager. That may be part of the problem right there! maybe it is just an unhappy facility with lots of problems. Nothing you will be able to do to change the climate if that is the case.

I am so sorry you are encountering this. I did in some of my clinicals, too. A lot of what they say about being overworked and understaffed is so true, but no excuse to treat students poorly. All you can do is resolve these things:

1. not to take it personally! Learn this one well, as you will need it when you are a nurse. Believe me.

2. report TRUE abuses to your instructors...no one deserves to be out and out abused by any other.

3. do not enter the unit "entitled", meaning, be willing to do your OWN research, fact-finding, lab reading, leg work, etc. Don't ask a busy charge nurse or primary nurse for things you can find or do yourself. (I know this is common sense, but I have learned common sense is not always that "common"). And be willling if you have an extra minute to help out anyway you can. Don't be afraid to offer to help do things like water passes/bed changes runs to lab, etc. IF your instructors permit. WE will be ETERNALLY GRATEFUL. NO that is not what you are there to learn and do, I know--- but if you DO have a minute, please try. It does make all the difference.

4. Remember those who DO treat you well and emulate them. Remember those who did not, and resolve never to be like them.

5. Enjoy school while you can. It's not "greener" on the "other side" always. Enjoy that safety net of your instructors while you have it and learn all you can while you are in school. Take every opportunity to grow.

6. Remember, nothing is forever, even nursing school. It WILL end and you WILL be a nurse one day and you WILL be able to look back on all of this and learn from it.

(((gentle hugs))) To ALL students here.